Arsenal 2012/13 General Chat & Starting X1 Thread

[Groomyd]

If you have anything of any value to add then do so - it's people who can't form an argument or who just post shite for effect that bore me

Why do you think Everton have declared their aim is to get into the CL?

How many more examples do you need?

Liverpool are relevant because they have spent fortunes but found out that getting into the CL is not as easy as some seem to think.

[blahblah]

To try and win things?

[Tim Bisley]

If you have anything of any value to add then do so - it's people who can't form an argument or who just post shite for effect that bore me

To coin a phrase...

FISOGOLD!

Repeating the same blinkered bullshit over and over and over again is not forming an argument. Neither is "but we're better than Liverpool"

[Groomyd]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22787805" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Did he promise a domestic cup?

Did he eff!!!!

We have been skint, we have needed to be in the CL, we have achieved that on small budget while rivals have spunked dosh and failed - that is success

Is it winning the league no, is it winning the tite? No

But it's so much more than winning a domestic cup!!!!!

[Groomyd]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 46637.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anything constructive to add? Why the CL seems so important?

Tell me why isn't he targeting the Carling Cup?

[blahblah]

The CL is good for the finance people and attracting players, winning things please the paying fans.....

[Tim Bisley]

We weren't talking about that, were we?

Your comments about how great Arsenal's transfer activity had been was questioned (particularly recent signings) and you went in to goal post moving Groomy defence mechanism mode and started comparing the CL to domestic cups...yet again.

[Groomyd]

The CL is good for the finance people and attracting players, winning things please the paying fans.....

With all due respect that is simply not true

Everton appointed a new manager and discussed the CL target as the headline ambition - not to finance people, not to shareholders, not internally

To their fans - their ultimate ambition - knocked by some as being too aspirational - but clearly shouted as their rallying cry - they want to be a big club, they want to join Europe's elite

[blahblah]

Robbie said CL and win things in the bit I heard.

[Groomyd]

By all means disagree but don't try to deny it!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... eague.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football ... ons-League" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... letic.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://metro.co.uk/2013/06/05/new-evert ... e-3830403/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And in every paper and news outlet .....................

And no I'm not saying winning domestic cups is a waste of time - but it is so far behind CL qualification, promotion, Prem safety - whatever it is your club aims to do - just look at the line ups FFS!!!!!

[blahblah]

I heard him say CL qualification and win things.

You think he will be happy to get to the CL and lose his best players because they are not competitive? I might accept he does well in the CL and then goes to one of Barca et al.

[Groomyd]

I can't believe you're still trying to shoe horn a domestic cup unto such clear messaging from Everton!!!

Never can anyone have posted quite so many unequivocal links to what all clubs anywhere near the top want to achieve - of course a cup would be nice - after all Moyes never won anything - but it's not the main course

[blahblah]

This is getting ridiculous.

You want us to all bow down before Arsene for getting into the CL with more cash than anyone bar Chelsea, MU and Citeh when you have blown the chance to win something, which may have encouraged the players who have left (to win things) to stay?

[Bunners]

By all means disagree but don't try to deny it!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... eague.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football ... ons-League" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... letic.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://metro.co.uk/2013/06/05/new-evert ... e-3830403/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And in every paper and news outlet .....................

And no I'm not saying winning domestic cups is a waste of time - but it is so far behind CL qualification, promotion, Prem safety - whatever it is your club aims to do - just look at the line ups FFS!!!!!

What am I doing in here arrrrggghhhhhh.......my point on this is something you say generally regarding not believing the media........

Skysports actually reported the bit about CL but failed to mention winning trophies....in no interview has Martinez solely mentioned the CL...and as everyone appreciates top 4 is v important but the media have skewed your viewpoint here a little

[foxinthebox2001]

By all means disagree but don't try to deny it!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... eague.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football ... ons-League" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... letic.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://metro.co.uk/2013/06/05/new-evert ... e-3830403/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And in every paper and news outlet .....................

And no I'm not saying winning domestic cups is a waste of time - but it is so far behind CL qualification, promotion, Prem safety - whatever it is your club aims to do - just look at the line ups FFS!!!!!

Maybe because he has actually won a trophy since Tony Blair won his 3rd general election domestic cups are not his personal priority.

[mikeg13]

Maybe because he has actually won a trophy since Tony Blair won his 3rd general election domestic cups are not his personal priority.

Could well be reminded of this at next season end, but will put it here anyway. We will win silverware next season, totally confident in that Not sure what it will be but it will happen.

[foxinthebox2001]

Maybe because he has actually won a trophy since Tony Blair won his 3rd general election domestic cups are not his personal priority.

Could well be reminded of this at next season end, but will put it here anyway. We will win silverware next season, totally confident in that Not sure what it will be but it will happen.

Not a very strong field in Emirates cup.....
Seriously though, of course he is going to aim higher than 6th, Hughes has his sights on top 10, Martinez has to trump that at least.
He would look a muppet if he said 'in my first season here I just want to avoid relegation'

[tedbull]

The CL is good for the finance people and attracting players, winning things please the paying fans.....

With all due respect that is simply not true

Everton appointed a new manager and discussed the CL target as the headline ambition - not to finance people, not to shareholders, not internally

To their fans - their ultimate ambition - knocked by some as being too aspirational - but clearly shouted as their rallying cry - they want to be a big club, they want to join Europe's elite

Again, you fall down at the most simple of points. The next target isn't the "ultimate ambition". Just the next target for a team who were in the mix and finished 6th.

Do you really believe that 4th should be anyone's ultimate ambition?

We all know why we want our clubs to reach the CL. It's to increase revenue and, therefore, compete for trophies. Not sure why you think you're telling us something we don't know. Seemingly though, myself and others can educate you on what the difference is between a target and an "ultimate ambition". So maybe stop spouting and pay attention. You might learn something.

[Groomyd]

Because Ted you and the disciples have locked horns with me on this for ages - telling us that CL qualification isn't an achievement

Everton have come out and backed me up which is nice of them

You can cling to the word "ultimate" if you like - of course strictly speaking it's not their "ultimate" aim - but it is what they see as Martinez big task - what they want - their quest

Not domestic cups

[mad dog]

For a team like Everton, champions league football is the aim, the next step.

For a team like arsenal, they should be pushing for titles not stumbling along finishing 4th every year. As someone with a soft spot for arsenal, I haven't felt they could win the title in years. If they sign Rooney and Fellini they could, actually could be in the mix.

[Groomyd]

We've been building a new stadium - why should we be able to compete with City, Chelsea and Utd?

[tedbull]

Because Ted you and the disciples have locked horns with me on this for ages - telling us that CL qualification isn't an achievement

Everton have come out and backed me up which is nice of them

You can cling to the word "ultimate" if you like - of course strictly speaking it's not their "ultimate" aim - but it is what they see as Martinez big task - what they want - their quest

Not domestic cups

Who said it wasn't an achievement? Myself and (the way I've interested it) others have simply said that it does not represent success in itself. It should provide the ability to compete for trophies. Arsenal have had sides capable of competing with just a bit more expenditure. They've also had the cash to do so, which has been demonstrated many times. It starts to look like simply making the top 4 is the "ultimate ambition". Arsene said as much with his 'trophy' crap. He's just lowering your expectations. "Ultimate ambition" was quoted from your post, by the way.

What did Everton back up your solitary opinion with? Admitting that being in the CL is important? Did you think you were out on your own with that view?

[Groomyd]

What did Everton back up your solitary opinion with? Admitting that being in the CL is important? Did you think you were out on your own with that view?

Reading the shite form the disciples then yes!

Even now you cant bring yourself to admit Arsenal have been successful in getting into the CL every year including during a period of financial constraint!!!!

[Giggs11]

What did Everton back up your solitary opinion with? Admitting that being in the CL is important? Did you think you were out on your own with that view?

Reading the shite form the disciples then yes!

Even now you cant bring yourself to admit Arsenal have been successful in getting into the CL every year including during a period of financial constraint!!!!

Why do you feel it`s a success qualifying for a tournament where every decent team considers you a rabbit and can`t wait for an easy passage into the quarters.

And to say you are unable to compete with the likes of United,City and Chelsea because of their wealth is just utter rubbish.
You finished above Chelsea last year and were on a par this year and only a few points behind City which means you are competing,the problem is with your stubborn manager who refuses to spend that bit extra to take you to the next step to possibly win something.

In recent years you have missed out on Yaya,Mata,Hazard and probably a lot more because of penny pinching.
You have sold your best assets because these assets had given up hope of winning anything and sick of the managers tunnel vision. He even admitted not bothering with Bale because you already had Cole and Clichy at left back which worked out really well and proved how little foresight he has.

Your scouting network has unearthed nothing in over a decade whilst potential gems like Benteke,Lukaku,Kone et al have all gone elsewhere.

You pay ridiculous sums of money to absolute dross who never play for the club or even warm the bench.

But your overall comeback is that you have a new stadium and qualify for a competition you have no chance of winning unless you do the catering for the opponents.

You are as tunnel visioned and deluded as Wenger.

[foxinthebox2001]

The Cult of Arsène
Ever debated with a religious fundamentalist? Ever done so and afterwards thought - what a waste of time that was. The faith of a religious person can be so devout, that even if you were to provide conclusive proof that God does not exist, their faith would remain strong. The typical scientist is an atheist or an agnostic and does not believe in God. If you were to provide a scientist with strong evidence that there is a God, then they would happily change their viewpoint. Many of us think that Arsene Wenger is spent force in top class European football. However, if he were to make the club genuine contenders once again, then we would change our opinion. We therefore expect the same open-minded attitude from those who still say that Wenger is the Messiah and Saviour.
The AKB* belief in Wenger is almost cult like and on the verge of a religion. It’s very difficult to provide them with evidence that Wenger’s recent teams have been a letdown, because they believe that 4th place is success. When we try and tell them it isn’t, we’re treated like blasphemers.
Imagine if Arsene Wenger were to build another great team that wins a title? A trophy that is actually made of metal. If that were to happen, then we non-believers would run down the street singing hallelujah whilst enjoying a taste of humble pie.
The point is that Wenger detractors would love to stand corrected if future evidence is provided of genuine success. We will be prepared to change our opinion if proven wrong. The problem with expecting the same attitude from the typical AKB, is that there doesn’t seem to be a cut off point to concede that Wenger is failing to maximise the club’s potential. Around 2006/07, many of us were concerned about the drop in standard and questioned the manager’s direction. The common response we got was being told to be patient: “Wenger’s rebuilding - give it a couple of years”. We were very patient. But in 2013 many of us are staggered, and our intelligence insulted, that the very same excuses have been given.
A fundamentalist will never concede that anything is wrong with their religion. Some AKB’s are just as stubborn. To give just one of countless examples, I’m sure you all remember Wenger’s strop at the press conference before the home tie with Bayern Munich. On Radio Five Live the next day, an AKB spokesman said that this was most likely a deliberate ploy by Wenger to deflect the pressure away from the team and on to him. Really! That is the excuse of a fundamentalist who ignores reality. Loyalty and faith is to be admired, but not blind faith.

Therefore we are curious to know what the cut off time is for the AKB’s belief system. How many years of Arsenal being journeymen will it take for them to change their opinion and how much evidence is needed? The expectation should be for Wenger to build a title challenging team in the next year. The Premier League is weak and Arsenal have the funds, so no more excuses.

Here is what will probably happen: Wenger will go another one or two seasons without winning anything. Then we will win a League Cup or an FA Cup and the Messiah will be given another decade to do whatever he wants (just so long as the club make profit). Unless there is a major change in Wenger’s direction, waiting for him to provide a title contending team might be as long and drawn out as evolution.

From the fanzine site.
*For non supporters AKB is the acronym for 'Arsene Knows Best'

[tedbull]

What did Everton back up your solitary opinion with? Admitting that being in the CL is important? Did you think you were out on your own with that view?

Reading the shite form the disciples then yes!

Even now you cant bring yourself to admit Arsenal have been successful in getting into the CL every year including during a period of financial constraint!!!!

I'll happily admit that. I just don't consider it to be the achievement that you do. Getting into the CL is worth very little unless the club actually invests the proceeds. The club has not just operated to its constraints, it's operated well within them. I don't have the same belief as you that increasing the financial power will turn into anything on the pitch. Arsene has had the money and hasn't used it, so why will he suddenly change?

But yes, you have succeeded into getting into the CL. If that's the sole aim for Arsenal and its shareholders, then I'm sure they're happy.

[mikeg13]

But yes, you have succeeded into getting into the CL. If that's the sole aim for Arsenal and its shareholders, then I'm sure they're happy.

Assumptions are being made about the club and its fans based on 1 persons opinion, he is entitled to that, would have thought on here, is this not a platform for opinions.

But this is what clubs CEO said

“We are beginning to see the escalation in our financial firepower.
“That’s going to happen partly next season, it’s partly available now. It means we can spend more on transfers and wages.
“We can look at options that weren’t previously in our financial capability.”
By topping £300m in revenues, the Gunners will come close to European champions Bayern Munich, who last year posted £317m income.
Gazidis added: “We should be able to compete at a level like Bayern. I’m not saying we are there — we have a way to go.
“We are an extraordinarily ambitious club. This has been about putting us up with the best in the world and now the question is turning that platform into on-field success.
“Fans want to see real progression.
“I do believe we can win the title and that’s certainly our ambition.”

Did lift this from Sun, but it is in just about every paper, same quotes, that reads very different to slant many see as clubs future plans and expectations.
For sure every season I want Afc to win meaningful silverware, but in todays football world that depends as much on money as anything else, granted to a degree its always been so, but its now at a level never seen before. Yes we can go along surviving in Prem, maybe win League Cup every once in a while, but to me thats not ambition, its just making up the numbers. To have a realistic chance to be genuine contenders for prizes that matter, entry into champ league in my view not just nice but a must.

Sorry thats so long, but do get fed up with assumption Arsenal and fans have no ambition, I do, winning that Champ League not just a dream to me its now an obsession.

[murf]

this is what clubs CEO said

“We are beginning to see the escalation in our financial firepower.
“That’s going to happen partly next season, it’s partly available now. It means we can spend more on transfers and wages.
“We can look at options that weren’t previously in our financial capability.”
By topping £300m in revenues, the Gunners will come close to European champions Bayern Munich, who last year posted £317m income.
Gazidis added: “We should be able to compete at a level like Bayern. I’m not saying we are there — we have a way to go.
“We are an extraordinarily ambitious club. This has been about putting us up with the best in the world and now the question is turning that platform into on-field success.
“Fans want to see real progression.
“I do believe we can win the title and that’s certainly our ambition.”.

A fairly honest appraisal but I'd be worried about the bits in bold - sounds like the excuses are starting to come out for not spending as much this summer as most expect is available. All a bit "wait til you see what will happen next year..." groundhog day-ja vu all over again.

[mikeg13]

[quote="murf"
A fairly honest appraisal but I'd be worried about the bits in bold - sounds like the excuses are starting to come out for not spending as much this summer as most expect is available. All a bit "wait til you see what will happen next year..." groundhog day-ja vu all over again.[/quote]

Would have been more worried if bits in bold not there In my view to get us realistically into group he is alluding to will take more than the £70 to £100 mil available at moment.
If on first day of season he still has majority of money unspent, will not be a happy bunny, I could be very wrong but dont think that is going to happen

[mikeg13]

Thought this may be of interest to some Afc fans.

Ticket Transfer

Gold level members can set up list of family and friends on their membership account and pass the ticket to them at the press of a button. The recipient will simply print a coupon at home which will provide access to the stadium


Taken from Afc renew booklet