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F1 specific (chit chat thread)

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Re: F1 specific (chit chat thread)

Post by forestfan »

I guess they're going to need a rethink if they are to avoid it withering away to an unmarketable handful of cars. The "cost cutting" measures of recent years have proved the proverbial chocolate teapot given the fortunes of the recent new teams - it may come down to a choice between technological innovation and a competitive spectacle, and if the latter's not there then it won't be worth teams continuing to invest in the former.

I kind of wish a Briatore-led rival series had come to fruition after his ban. A serious rival to F1 (which Indy, NASCAR, sportscars and touring cars, and short-lived upstarts like A1GP, have never managed to become, in terms of attracting the top drivers and exposure on a global scale) would make Bernie and co have to think about the radical solutions.

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Re: F1 specific (chit chat thread)

Post by murf »

Bernie gets a fortune in from circuits TV companies and sponsors - he needs to start paying more out so it becomes sensible to buy into Marussia and Caterham or join in. Even money (bit like the Premier League), not just overly rewarding the winners like Mercedes.

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Re: F1 specific (chit chat thread)

Post by Mystery »

Bernie was around in the 80s too though so his, or his trustees, undoubted greed isn't necessarily that significant.

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Re: F1 specific (chit chat thread)

Post by murf »

Marussia now officially in administration :(

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-ox ... e-29784602" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bernie needs to pull his finger out and make it more attractive for teams to enter F1 and, more importantly, start to thrive. We don't need more rubbish backmarkers who will collapse within 2 years, we need teams who can improve and become 'proper' teams.

Lets be honest - F1 fans won't miss Marussia and Caterham as we have known them and we don't need or want more like them. I am happy to have teams start off as slow as them but I want to see them getting better and, at least, challenging the worst of the established teams.

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Re: F1 specific (chit chat thread)

Post by forestfan »

Yeah, I always thought it was just poor management that had prevented them from challenging the weaker of the established teams, but seems the financial gap was just too much to bridge, despite some seemingly very wealthy backers.

Fair enough they won't be missed in a competitive sense, though the circumstances of Marussia's departure are particularly unfortunate. The immediate question is will further dominoes fall - Sauber, Lotus, Force India? And do the leading teams want to be forced to run three or even four cars to create a viable field, or reduce the costs to bring back the days when you could stick a Cosworth in the back of a go-kart and compete? It's got to be one or the other.

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Re: F1 specific (chit chat thread)

Post by Alchemist »

Will this accelerate the introduction of the Haas team - currently ETA 2016?

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Re: F1 specific (chit chat thread)

Post by Mystery »

Alchemist wrote:Will this accelerate the introduction of the Haas team - currently ETA 2016?
More likely scare them off.

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Re: F1 specific (chit chat thread)

Post by forestfan »

Vettel likely to have to start from the pit lane in Texas due to exceeding his allowance of engines - so very likely he won't even appear in qualifying (what happened to having to post a 107% time in Q1 to make the grid?)

If there's no change of format then Q1 could be just to eliminate one car :lol:

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Re: F1 specific (chit chat thread)

Post by Moist von Lipwig »

forestfan wrote: (what happened to having to post a 107% time in Q1 to make the grid?)
Whiting said at the start of the season it was there to ensure that bloody awful cars weren't in the race & it would be relaxed as they were confident that the grid was of a standard.

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Re: F1 specific (chit chat thread)

Post by bluenosey »

forestfan wrote:Yeah, I always thought it was just poor management that had prevented them from challenging the weaker of the established teams, but seems the financial gap was just too much to bridge, despite some seemingly very wealthy backers.

Fair enough they won't be missed in a competitive sense, though the circumstances of Marussia's departure are particularly unfortunate. The immediate question is will further dominoes fall - Sauber, Lotus, Force India? And do the leading teams want to be forced to run three or even four cars to create a viable field, or reduce the costs to bring back the days when you could stick a Cosworth in the back of a go-kart and compete? It's got to be one or the other.
Ah the days of the old Cosworth. Won GPs from 67/68 (Jim Clark ??) to Michele Alboreto in a Tyrell in USA - 83ish ?? Perhaps we need a few teams like the old Rob Walker/ Frank Williams "privateer" efforts. A third car is worth a shout too.

There was a great story in an old Autosport about how 4/5 blokes got together in the mid 70s and formed the Techno (I think) F1 team. The "car" only did one race, I think, but you imagine trying to start a team from scratch now :? It would cost gazillions.

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Re: F1 specific (chit chat thread)

Post by Mystery »

Qualifying has been confirmed to be revised to eliminate four cars from each of the qually sessions (or rather Vettel plus three in Q1)

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Re: F1 specific (chit chat thread)

Post by Moist von Lipwig »

I liked this article


http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2 ... a-caterham" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: F1 specific (chit chat thread)

Post by forestfan »

Marussia now officially folded, Caterham using an online crowdfunding strategy to get them back on the grid for Abu Dhabi... they will need more than that if it's not to be a farewell appearance though.

So unless they can be rescued I guess the winter debate will be which teams will be asked/volunteer to run three cars, and whether the next three smaller teams can stay afloat. Sauber at least get a £30m bonus that would have gone to Marussia...

Thinking about it, a grid of say 20 cars from 4 or 5 manufacturers, some of them run by customer/satellite teams, may not be a bad format - more like MotoGP I guess. As long as there's enough different constructors to drive development. If there's no future for smaller teams as constructors themselves it's the only way.

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Re: F1 specific (chit chat thread)

Post by Mystery »

The MotoGP model seems reasonably plausible but there is a real force against customer cars so the satellite team model just has too much against it at present.

Sad for the 200 or so Marussia employees made redundant.

Also, I'd be curious if Bianchi was due any kind of insurance payout and treatment costs. He may not come out of this will either.

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Re: F1 specific (chit chat thread)

Post by murf »

Is Bianchi contracted to Ferrari?

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Re: F1 specific (chit chat thread)

Post by Mystery »

murf wrote:Is Bianchi contracted to Ferrari?
Possibly yes. He's been described as "part of the Ferrari family" so even if not contracted they won't possibly hang him out to dry. Good spot

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Re: F1 specific (chit chat thread)

Post by Moist von Lipwig »

I had the misfortune this week to see the Bernie interview where he essentially blames the smaller teams themselves for being in trouble by spending too much and that F1 inc is not a charity...


odious little man.

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Re: F1 specific (chit chat thread)

Post by Mystery »

Moist von Lipwig wrote:odious little man.
Summed up his good points neatly there.

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Re: F1 specific (chit chat thread)

Post by forestfan »

Mystery wrote:The MotoGP model seems reasonably plausible but there is a real force against customer cars so the satellite team model just has too much against it at present.
That might not be the case when there are 10 cars on the grid...

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Re: F1 specific (chit chat thread)

Post by Mystery »

For FISOns with more money than sense you can support the frankly bizarre Refuel Caterham crowdfunding campaign here
http://www.crowdcube.com/caterham" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: F1 specific (chit chat thread)

Post by Mystery »

Mystery wrote:I can almost foresee two-class Grand Prix with F1 running the current spec and a new F2 running concurrently at the same races but with last year's engine spec, or even better a specified engine but with free choice of aero - essentially like the way Moto2 relates to MotoGP except being in the same race to fill up the tracks.
Is Bernie reading this??

http://www.racer.com/latest-stories/ite ... st-f1-grid" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: F1 specific (chit chat thread)

Post by murf »

Mystery wrote:
Mystery wrote:I can almost foresee two-class Grand Prix with F1 running the current spec and a new F2 running concurrently at the same races but with last year's engine spec, or even better a specified engine but with free choice of aero - essentially like the way Moto2 relates to MotoGP except being in the same race to fill up the tracks.
Is Bernie reading this??

http://www.racer.com/latest-stories/ite ... st-f1-grid" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Don't like it or the subtext of only having 10 proper cars - that is the bit that would kill F1 (and give all the manufacturers too much power as if they pulled out it be a nightmare for F1)

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Re: F1 specific (chit chat thread)

Post by Mystery »

murf wrote:Don't like it or the subtext of only having 10 proper cars - that is the bit that would kill F1 (and give all the manufacturers too much power as if they pulled out it be a nightmare for F1)
I agree. It's not as if there aren't enough race car manufacturers who could design a car, if only the engines didn't cost multi-squillions of pounds. You just have to look at the Le Mans categories to know that.

Honda have been and gone very recently. Renault have threatened before and I can't imagine this year will have helped. Red Bull are, let's be honest, a fizzy pop manufacturer and are bound to lose interest one day. Mercedes haven't been around long enough for me to form a view on how long they'll stay.

If each one of those represents 2 teams / 4 cars then the sport would be very tied to their whims and tastes, in much the same way bike GP racing is.

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Re: F1 specific (chit chat thread)

Post by murf »

Merc and Renault want the stupidly expensive hybrid engines because they are more linked to road car development. Many others want cheaper V8 type engines to save cash.

You can't please all the people all the time and if you cut it down to 5 'A' teams then just do what Ferrari want you will soon be left with 2 or 4 cars on the grid......

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Re: F1 specific (chit chat thread)

Post by forestfan »

Or 22 Ferraris...

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Re: F1 specific (chit chat thread)

Post by forestfan »

Caterham's crowdfunding exercise seems to have got them on the grid for Abu Dhabi, which is remarkable but looks like a one-off. Marcus Ericsson has cut ties with the team so they have to find at least one driver, assuming the remnants of Marussia aren't able to get there as well then maybe it will be Chilton?

Bernie apparently dismissive of the need to attract a young audience to F1, saying they "couldn't afford the brands it promotes". EU also reported to want to ban alcohol sponsorship... the future of F1 looks brighter by the day :lol:

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Re: F1 specific (chit chat thread)

Post by murf »

See Bernie has now been calling the teams idiots for not wanting 3 double points rounds....

Here's an idea Bernie - have 20 of them.....

Or double points for the proper traditional grand prixs and sod all for Azerbaijan and Abu Dhabi etc......

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Re: F1 specific (chit chat thread)

Post by forestfan »

Exactly, bring back France, Imola etc. and cut back on the oil money races.

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Re: F1 specific (chit chat thread)

Post by gazwood »

Correct me if I'm wrong but with Hamilton having won in Texas and Nico having won in Brazil, it wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference if they were single or double points and we'd be in the same position we are now anyway :?

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Re: F1 specific (chit chat thread)

Post by Mystery »

gazwood wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but with Hamilton having won in Texas and Nico having won in Brazil, it wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference if they were single or double points and we'd be in the same position we are now anyway :?
Not quite but there's a reasonably narrow selection of results where it would make a difference now. If Lewis is between 3rd and 6th with Nico winning then the double points alone will give Nico the title, but because of the speed of the Mercs that's a slim chance. Lewis's most likely results are 1st, 2nd, DNF, then anything else.

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