Did Athletics gets what it deserves?
- blahblah
- FISO Viscount
- Posts: 108836
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
- Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.
- FPL:
Did Athletics gets what it deserves?
Gaitlin wins the 100m, ruining a glorious retirement for Bolt; and bringing PED's back to the fore in a sport with a rather MASSIVE broom and rug
Last edited by blahblah on 06 Aug 2017, 10:58, edited 1 time in total.
- forestfan
- FISO Jedi Knight
- Posts: 36694
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:27
- Location: Between Westeros and Nova Scotia
- FS Record: FISODAS Champion Season 34!
Re: Does Athletics gets what it deserves?
Well, it's failed spectacularly to take advantage of having the biggest star in world sport for the past decade, and to deal with the issues... at least the crowd know how to respond to the cheat, unlike the commentators shamefully biting their tongues.
I think Bolt will be back before Tokyo if nobody steps up and runs close to the sort of times he used to in the next year or so. He won't want the unsatisfactory, cheats-prosper ending, even if they win the relay.
I think Bolt will be back before Tokyo if nobody steps up and runs close to the sort of times he used to in the next year or so. He won't want the unsatisfactory, cheats-prosper ending, even if they win the relay.
- mad dog
- Dumbledog
- Posts: 13337
- Joined: 06 Jan 2008, 11:17
- FS Record: Sky Winner 16/17
- FPL:
Re: Does Athletics gets what it deserves?
Well and truly booed before and after. still crazy a bloke banned for drug taking is allowed to compete. That's done althetics no favours tonight.
- forestfan
- FISO Jedi Knight
- Posts: 36694
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:27
- Location: Between Westeros and Nova Scotia
- FS Record: FISODAS Champion Season 34!
- murf
- FISO Viscount
- Posts: 109611
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:28
- Location: here
- FS Record: Once led TFF. Very briefly.
- FPL:
- Contact:
Re: Does Athletics gets what it deserves?
I think many would forgive his first ban but to get done properly after having already been banned was stupid and shameful.
Almost as stupid and shameful as the athletics rules that let him back in.
Ruins what has been a cracking start to the championships.
Been 2 excellent long distance finals of different sorts. A 46 second win in the women's and a much closer win for Mo. Mind you I ran nearly 46s faster than Mo's time on my Parkrun this morning.
Almost as stupid and shameful as the athletics rules that let him back in.
Ruins what has been a cracking start to the championships.
Been 2 excellent long distance finals of different sorts. A 46 second win in the women's and a much closer win for Mo. Mind you I ran nearly 46s faster than Mo's time on my Parkrun this morning.
- Mystery
- FISO Knight
- Posts: 13816
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:33
- Location: Just about here
- FS Record: 116th in TFF 05/06
- FPL:
- Contact:
- blahblah
- FISO Viscount
- Posts: 108836
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
- Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.
- FPL:
Re: Does Athletics gets what it deserves?
Yep, and I just thought PEDs etc....
And similar thoughts there
For me, they haven't caught anywhere near enough, and probably haven't even tried.... But then it's only Cycling, Weightlifting and Nordic Skiing that have drug cheats, with a few swimmers (but not the Irish, as that was a one off by a nasty woman, or her coach who did it to her without her knowing...) Oh and anything else Russia and China are any good at.
800m? Or do you have better drugs?
If I were Gaitlin, I wouldn't let that sample out of my sight until it has been tested..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb0Jmy-JYbA
- blahblah
- FISO Viscount
- Posts: 108836
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
- Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.
- FPL:
Re: Does Athletics gets what it deserves?
At 56 secs is that "shove it up your nose" for real
- Mystery
- FISO Knight
- Posts: 13816
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:33
- Location: Just about here
- FS Record: 116th in TFF 05/06
- FPL:
- Contact:
- unc.si.
- FISO Knight
- Posts: 11815
- Joined: 11 Oct 2010, 14:08
- Location: Off to buy Loctite
- FS Record: 'Loser' by Beck
Re: Does Athletics gets what it deserves?
been away but just catching up with the athletics now.
Bit of a sad state of affairs really. I honestly don't know where things go from here. Gatlin winning is obviously bad PR but maybe its just what the sport needs. Surely they can't just ignore doping now the PED poster boy has a gold medal round his neck?
At least Gatlins time was believable, unlike the womens 10k. Has everybody just accepted that the long distance races are a doping free for all now?
Bit of a sad state of affairs really. I honestly don't know where things go from here. Gatlin winning is obviously bad PR but maybe its just what the sport needs. Surely they can't just ignore doping now the PED poster boy has a gold medal round his neck?
At least Gatlins time was believable, unlike the womens 10k. Has everybody just accepted that the long distance races are a doping free for all now?
- Tacalabala
- FISO Knight
- Posts: 19010
- Joined: 07 Sep 2008, 01:03
- FPL:
Re: Does Athletics gets what it deserves?
I was lucky enough to be in the ground. It's strange, you sit there and enjoy the spectacle of the 10k, but on the drive home you do think to yourself - was that possible, can someone really be that dominant at the top level?unc.si. wrote: ↑06 Aug 2017, 08:33 been away but just catching up with the athletics now.
Bit of a sad state of affairs really. I honestly don't know where things go from here. Gatlin winning is obviously bad PR but maybe its just what the sport needs. Surely they can't just ignore doping now the PED poster boy has a gold medal round his neck?
At least Gatlins time was believable, unlike the womens 10k. Has everybody just accepted that the long distance races are a doping free for all now?
I don't know, her splits versus Diaba don't suggest unusual patterns:
AYANA Split D time D rank
1000m 00:03:30 00:03:30 10
2000m 00:06:49 00:03:18 9
3000m 00:09:59 00:03:11 8
4000m 00:13:02 00:03:03 7
5000m 00:15:51 00:02:49 1
6000m 00:18:43 00:02:52 3
7000m 00:21:35 00:02:52 4
8000m 00:24:30 00:02:55 5
9000m 00:27:27 00:02:57 6
10000m 00:30:16 00:02:49 2
DIBABA Split D time D rank
1000m 00:03:31 00:03:31 10
2000m 00:06:50 00:03:19 9
3000m 00:10:00 00:03:09 8
4000m 00:13:04 00:03:05 6
5000m 00:16:01 00:02:56 2
6000m 00:19:00 00:03:00 3
7000m 00:22:03 00:03:02 4
8000m 00:25:08 00:03:06 7
9000m 00:28:13 00:03:04 5
10000m 00:31:03 00:02:50 1
As for Gatlin, the fact is that he was convicted twice. Is anyone seriously telling me that if there had been any doubt about either case, that he wouldn't have gone to court (legal and CAS)? He didn't, so it's clear he is guilty. Gatlin's coach for the second incident was a high profile individual at the heart of the BALCO case, and as someone pointed out last night, how was Gatlin able to give the IAAF information on doping to reduce his suspension if he wasn't himself involved to some degree? We know he isn't sorry, just sorry for getting caught, and he doesn't give a toss what anyone else thinks.
- Mav3rick
- FISO Jedi Knight
- Posts: 20858
- Joined: 20 Jul 2009, 20:35
- FS Record: FPL: 1082, 1201, 1800, 10203
The stats are dark and full of errors.
Re: Does Athletics gets what it deserves?
I only really tune in for the big athletics meets, and while the sport and Bolt's story interests me (obviously) it's the crowd reaction to Gatlin that was the most interesting thing last night for me. Ok, so Gatlin is a bit of a pantomime villain (surely there are other athletes are also competing after returning from a ban but not getting booed) but was that reaction a "British" crowd thing or is it representative of the feeling of spectators throughout the world?
I assume that nations like Australia would definitely have the same reaction, but what about the rest of the world, do people really care about the doping in most places as that seems the underlying issue to me? It just seems like such a simple issue to solve if the will is there, lifetime bans from Olympics and World Championships and the problem goes away, doesn't it?
Drugs cheats can presumably still earn a living on the diamond league circuit, and the IOC/IAAF was able to ban the Russians from Rio easily enough, I just don't see what the issue is in coming down hard on people that cheat. It must be that most of the people running the sport don't want it stopped?
I assume that nations like Australia would definitely have the same reaction, but what about the rest of the world, do people really care about the doping in most places as that seems the underlying issue to me? It just seems like such a simple issue to solve if the will is there, lifetime bans from Olympics and World Championships and the problem goes away, doesn't it?
Drugs cheats can presumably still earn a living on the diamond league circuit, and the IOC/IAAF was able to ban the Russians from Rio easily enough, I just don't see what the issue is in coming down hard on people that cheat. It must be that most of the people running the sport don't want it stopped?
- Tacalabala
- FISO Knight
- Posts: 19010
- Joined: 07 Sep 2008, 01:03
- FPL:
Re: Does Athletics gets what it deserves?
I had Jamaicans, Germans and Swiss supporters close by and they were just as ferocious in their hatred. Honestly, it was terrible, men and women shouting "soap", "cheat", "disgrace".Mav3rick wrote: ↑06 Aug 2017, 09:13 I only really tune in for the big athletics meets, and while the sport and Bolt's story interests me (obviously) it's the crowd reaction to Gatlin that was the most interesting thing last night for me. Ok, so Gatlin is a bit of a pantomime villain (surely there are other athletes are also competing after returning from a ban but not getting booed) but was that reaction a "British" crowd thing or is it representative of the feeling of spectators throughout the world?
You need to take it case by case, for me unless the authority felt that the athletic had deliberately tried to use drugs and/or evade detection, then they should not be named, and go into a 6-12 month re-education programme but still allowed to compete albeit with a much increased testing plan. If the authority felt it was a deliberate attempt, and/or the athlete has failed to comply with testing procedures, they should be banned for 4 years on first conviction, and lifetime on second. I would also wipe their record for their career up to that point.I assume that nations like Australia would definitely have the same reaction, but what about the rest of the world, do people really care about the doping in most places as that seems the underlying issue to me? It just seems like such a simple issue to solve if the will is there, lifetime bans from Olympics and World Championships and the problem goes away, doesn't it?
I think it's a litigation issue, they are so worried about making a mistake and getting hammered in a court of law that they take a conservative position on it which is only satisfactory for the dopers.Drugs cheats can presumably still earn a living on the diamond league circuit, and the IOC/IAAF was able to ban the Russians from Rio easily enough, I just don't see what the issue is in coming down hard on people that cheat. It must be that most of the people running the sport don't want it stopped?
- Mav3rick
- FISO Jedi Knight
- Posts: 20858
- Joined: 20 Jul 2009, 20:35
- FS Record: FPL: 1082, 1201, 1800, 10203
The stats are dark and full of errors.
Re: Does Athletics gets what it deserves?
Paula Radcliffe (who always seems to talk well on the issue) has described it as being an issue with WADA and their regulations with regards to restraint of trade. I don't know how WADA is operated (elected officials, etc) but it sounds like any change needs to be directed from them down.
- forestfan
- FISO Jedi Knight
- Posts: 36694
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:27
- Location: Between Westeros and Nova Scotia
- FS Record: FISODAS Champion Season 34!
Re: Does Athletics gets what it deserves?
Athletics is certainly at a crossroads, losing its two biggest stars shortly and with this issue constantly resurfacing and not being adequately dealt with.
It's the most natural of all sporting endeavours - who can run the fastest, jump the furthest etc. so should always have a broad public appeal. But it's kept sliding down the pecking order for a variety of reasons. The Olympics remains its saving grace, but its status as the blue riband event even there is diminishing somewhat as other sports have increased their profile.
How well cycling has addressed the doping issue remains up for debate, but it's clear that you can't get away with the large scale blatant doping of the past, at least, people wouldn't bend the rules with TUEs etc. if you could. Do they use the biological passports and so on in athletics? Or is it just accepted that they can't keep track of everyone training in the mountains of East Africa?
It's the most natural of all sporting endeavours - who can run the fastest, jump the furthest etc. so should always have a broad public appeal. But it's kept sliding down the pecking order for a variety of reasons. The Olympics remains its saving grace, but its status as the blue riband event even there is diminishing somewhat as other sports have increased their profile.
How well cycling has addressed the doping issue remains up for debate, but it's clear that you can't get away with the large scale blatant doping of the past, at least, people wouldn't bend the rules with TUEs etc. if you could. Do they use the biological passports and so on in athletics? Or is it just accepted that they can't keep track of everyone training in the mountains of East Africa?
- blahblah
- FISO Viscount
- Posts: 108836
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
- Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.
- FPL:
Re: Does Athletics gets what it deserves?
The people at the top are Marketing this, and want Sponsors and bums on seats: so do you think that they have any interest in coming down on someone who cheats if that someone is of the reputation of Boult, Rudisha, Shippers etc? This is the elephant in the room of ALL sports, but I apologise to and commend any sport that has separated these contradictory arms.Tacalabala wrote: ↑06 Aug 2017, 09:30I think it's a litigation issue, they are so worried about making a mistake and getting hammered in a court of law that they take a conservative position on it which is only satisfactory for the dopers.Mav3rick wrote: ↑06 Aug 2017, 09:13
]Drugs cheats can presumably still earn a living on the diamond league circuit, and the IOC/IAAF was able to ban the Russians from Rio easily enough, I just don't see what the issue is in coming down hard on people that cheat. It must be that most of the people running the sport don't want it stopped?
re Ben Johnson: he was always the villain to "nice" Carl Lewis... (Weren't the samples of that final retrospectively tested years later, and there was only 1 athlete that didn't fail?)
re Ayanna and Dibaba: that is a lot of 1k's under 3 mins, not to mention Dibaba's "burst" in the last km was slower than 2 of Ayanna's.... Enjoy: http://www.letsrun.com/news/2016/06/eve ... s-present/
- forestfan
- FISO Jedi Knight
- Posts: 36694
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:27
- Location: Between Westeros and Nova Scotia
- FS Record: FISODAS Champion Season 34!
Re: Does Athletics gets what it deserves?
I always wonder if Bolt is too good to be true in that all his major rivals, who he's consistently beaten over the years (Gatlin, Gay, Blake, Powell...) have been implicated in something drug related, whether major or minor. Just reminiscent of the Lance Armstrong situation where it got to the point where he was the only supposedly clean one and was still beating everyone else.
I hope Bolt is just a freak of nature, a once in a lifetime talent, and it would effectively kill the sport if anything untoward came out about him, even after his retirement. So we might never know anyway.
I hope Bolt is just a freak of nature, a once in a lifetime talent, and it would effectively kill the sport if anything untoward came out about him, even after his retirement. So we might never know anyway.
- Tacalabala
- FISO Knight
- Posts: 19010
- Joined: 07 Sep 2008, 01:03
- FPL:
Re: Did Athletics gets what it deserves?
Yeah, if Bolt has dabbled at all, athletics is basically dead.
- forestfan
- FISO Jedi Knight
- Posts: 36694
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:27
- Location: Between Westeros and Nova Scotia
- FS Record: FISODAS Champion Season 34!
Re: Did Athletics gets what it deserves?
If there was anything on him the Russians would probably have hacked it by now I guess...
- forestfan
- FISO Jedi Knight
- Posts: 36694
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:27
- Location: Between Westeros and Nova Scotia
- FS Record: FISODAS Champion Season 34!
Re: Did Athletics gets what it deserves?
Now they've made the cowardly decision to move the medal ceremony to before the events start tonight.
- blahblah
- FISO Viscount
- Posts: 108836
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
- Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.
- FPL:
Re: Did Athletics gets what it deserves?
Depends if it got stored\saved in those Servers?
There was an issue with Jamaica's Drug testing a few years ago - but a few have been "caught" since then.....
I am not saying he has been doping ditto the others I mentioned - but they haven't caught and exposed\suspended anywhere enough athletes for me to believe that most of the Competitors are clean, let alone the winners.
There was an issue with Jamaica's Drug testing a few years ago - but a few have been "caught" since then.....
I am not saying he has been doping ditto the others I mentioned - but they haven't caught and exposed\suspended anywhere enough athletes for me to believe that most of the Competitors are clean, let alone the winners.
- forestfan
- FISO Jedi Knight
- Posts: 36694
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:27
- Location: Between Westeros and Nova Scotia
- FS Record: FISODAS Champion Season 34!
Re: Did Athletics gets what it deserves?
Well, obviously it's impossible to prove anyone is clean. The best you can say is there's no strong evidence to the contrary. There's nothing that's really stuck in Bolt's case, aside from general questions about his country's procedures, whereas others have not been caught but have clear links to someone dodgy.
- bluenosey
- Dumblenose
- Posts: 14752
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:26
- FS Record: FISO Goals Champ 2018/19 & 2019/20
- FPL:
Re: Does Athletics gets what it deserves?
Tacalabala wrote: ↑06 Aug 2017, 09:30I had Jamaicans, Germans and Swiss supporters close by and they were just as ferocious in their hatred. Honestly, it was terrible, men and women shouting "soap", "cheat", "disgrace".Mav3rick wrote: ↑06 Aug 2017, 09:13 I only really tune in for the big athletics meets, and while the sport and Bolt's story interests me (obviously) it's the crowd reaction to Gatlin that was the most interesting thing last night for me. Ok, so Gatlin is a bit of a pantomime villain (surely there are other athletes are also competing after returning from a ban but not getting booed) but was that reaction a "British" crowd thing or is it representative of the feeling of spectators throughout the world?
I've little sympathy. The problem with Gatlin is there is no remorse. "I cheated, I served my ban, so what" type of attitude. I tried to book tickets last year for the Friday but was too late and missed out. Slightly glad in a way. Yeah, there are others that have cheated but not quite so high profile. For him to win at 35, it's a big hmmm, we'll never know. Also, the IAAF/IOC shouldn't have changed the bans back to two years for the first offence years ago. Four is probably about right.
As for the crowd, well, fair play IMO. I remember the poor French pole vaulter in the Olympics getting booed mercilessly because he was up against a Brazilian in Rio. The British would never do that at Athletics.
Back to the sport and the ladies 100m was a cracker. It's all in the dip ! Disappointing performances though from Andy Pozzi, KJT and Holly Bradshaw. Unfortunately this shows that without Cycling and Rowing, all Olympic haul would be a lot less relying on track and field. Especially now Mo has gone
Special mention to Callum Hawkins in the men's marathon who mixed it with the Rift Valley Africans. Fourth was a fantastic result.
- bluenosey
- Dumblenose
- Posts: 14752
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:26
- FS Record: FISO Goals Champ 2018/19 & 2019/20
- FPL:
Re: Does Athletics gets what it deserves?
Tacalabala wrote: ↑06 Aug 2017, 09:30I had Jamaicans, Germans and Swiss supporters close by and they were just as ferocious in their hatred. Honestly, it was terrible, men and women shouting "soap", "cheat", "disgrace".Mav3rick wrote: ↑06 Aug 2017, 09:13 I only really tune in for the big athletics meets, and while the sport and Bolt's story interests me (obviously) it's the crowd reaction to Gatlin that was the most interesting thing last night for me. Ok, so Gatlin is a bit of a pantomime villain (surely there are other athletes are also competing after returning from a ban but not getting booed) but was that reaction a "British" crowd thing or is it representative of the feeling of spectators throughout the world?
I've little sympathy. The problem with Gatlin is there is no remorse. "I cheated, I served my ban, so what" type of attitude. I tried to book tickets last year for the Friday but was too late and missed out. Slightly glad in a way. Yeah, there are others that have cheated but not quite so high profile. For him to win at 35, it's a big hmmm, we'll never know. Also, the IAAF/IOC shouldn't have changed the bans back to two years for the first offence years ago. Four is probably about right.
As for the crowd, well, fair play IMO. I remember the poor French pole vaulter in the Olympics getting booed mercilessly because he was up against a Brazilian in Rio. The British would never do that at Athletics.
Back to the sport and the ladies 100m was a cracker. It's all in the dip ! Disappointing performances though from Andy Pozzi, KJT and Holly Bradshaw. Unfortunately this shows that without Cycling and Rowing, all Olympic haul would be a lot less relying on track and field. Especially now Mo has gone
Special mention to Callum Hawkins in the men's marathon who mixed it with the Rift Valley Africans. Fourth was a fantastic result.
- Tacalabala
- FISO Knight
- Posts: 19010
- Joined: 07 Sep 2008, 01:03
- FPL:
Re: Did Athletics gets what it deserves?
Yeah that was a top effort in the marathon
- unc.si.
- FISO Knight
- Posts: 11815
- Joined: 11 Oct 2010, 14:08
- Location: Off to buy Loctite
- FS Record: 'Loser' by Beck
Re: Did Athletics gets what it deserves?
Can’t believe Gatlins still going and still winning major medals at 63.
It’s amazing what modern medicine can achieve
It’s amazing what modern medicine can achieve
- forestfan
- FISO Jedi Knight
- Posts: 36694
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:27
- Location: Between Westeros and Nova Scotia
- FS Record: FISODAS Champion Season 34!
Re: Did Athletics gets what it deserves?
Gatlin just refuses to go away, maybe he is just in the Federer/Ronaldo/Brady category of people who defy age, but there’s a fair chance the drugs he took early in his career provided a lasting benefit.
Coleman now has a stain on his reputation himself due to the missed tests, but still, good to see the young pretender step up and produce the goods on the big stage. The sport will never find another Bolt (and it really missed the chance to build a legacy from a once in a generation superstar) but it needs new stars not recycled cheats taking the big honours.
Coleman now has a stain on his reputation himself due to the missed tests, but still, good to see the young pretender step up and produce the goods on the big stage. The sport will never find another Bolt (and it really missed the chance to build a legacy from a once in a generation superstar) but it needs new stars not recycled cheats taking the big honours.
- blahblah
- FISO Viscount
- Posts: 108836
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
- Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.
- FPL:
Re: Did Athletics gets what it deserves?
I don't watch it any more as I doubt many are clean.
A few years back I went to the Manchester street thing. Schippers had the PED look from the 80's ie spots and odd looking jaw. That typed I was behind the start and her power off the start was impressive not to mention the noise.
A few years back I went to the Manchester street thing. Schippers had the PED look from the 80's ie spots and odd looking jaw. That typed I was behind the start and her power off the start was impressive not to mention the noise.
- unc.si.
- FISO Knight
- Posts: 11815
- Joined: 11 Oct 2010, 14:08
- Location: Off to buy Loctite
- FS Record: 'Loser' by Beck
Re: Did Athletics gets what it deserves?
The noise? A little bit of extra jet propulsion??blahblah wrote: ↑29 Sep 2019, 11:21 I don't watch it any more as I doubt many are clean.
A few years back I went to the Manchester street thing. Schippers had the PED look from the 80's ie spots and odd looking jaw. That typed I was behind the start and her power off the start was impressive not to mention the noise.
- blahblah
- FISO Viscount
- Posts: 108836
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
- Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.
- FPL:
Re: Did Athletics gets what it deserves?
And people think I'm immature (She looked kinda hot as did a hurdler of ours with blue streaks in blonde hair)unc.si. wrote: ↑29 Sep 2019, 11:45The noise? A little bit of extra jet propulsion??blahblah wrote: ↑29 Sep 2019, 11:21 I don't watch it any more as I doubt many are clean.
A few years back I went to the Manchester street thing. Schippers had the PED look from the 80's ie spots and odd looking jaw. That typed I was behind the start and her power off the start was impressive not to mention the noise.
No the thundering of her feet on the raised track thing.
View Latest: 1 Day View Your posts