BitCoin

[Finsimbo]

Bitcoin is not an investment. An investment is putting money into something tangible like property, shares, gold etc.
Buying bitcoin is like currency speculation but without the fundementals

Like shares in Technology? Granted you have Hardware tech and Software Tech.

Explain the difference?

Would you had bought shares in Fb when it started off? And knowing where it is now because it wasn't tangible?

The fundamentals are there in the idea of the fact that it removes a layer in the supply chain. A very costly layer to someone like Amazon and a very cheap/realistic alternative to a small trader from anywhere around the world, single currency. All it takes is someone like Amazon to pick up on it and the share price will rocket for which ever coin is used or cryptocurrency in general

On TV last night there was an ad which said it would take BitCoins as payment. That was the first TV ad I have seen mentioning BitCoin and said advert had nothing to do with technology. Just saying.....

[Striker]

Would you had bought shares in Fb when it started off? And knowing where it is now because it wasn't tangible.

Unlike Bitcoin, Facebook was always tangible. We knew who owned Facebook, we knew the responsibilities of the top executives, we knew that they attracted a lot of people to their site and that they planned both to fund the provision of the service to its users and to generate profits by selling advertising.

[Finsimbo]

Would you had bought shares in Fb when it started off? And knowing where it is now because it wasn't tangible.

Unlike Bitcoin, Facebook was always tangible. We knew who owned Facebook, we knew the responsibilities of the top executives, we knew that they attracted a lot of people to their site and that they planned both to fund the provision of the service to its users and to generate profits by selling advertising.

But before that, it was a piece of software that became popular, that is the bare bone of it. Bit Coin will become a piece of software that becomes available. Email was a piece of software that became available. Mobile phone technology was made more available to the general public.....see what I am getting at..its a piece of software that will someday be up there with FB, Amazon, Email, Mobile phone, remote storage, remote desktops remote spying and on and on....

But whatever.......

[Finsimbo]

Would you had bought shares in Fb when it started off? And knowing where it is now because it wasn't tangible.

Unlike Bitcoin, Facebook was always tangible. We knew who owned Facebook, we knew the responsibilities of the top executives, we knew that they attracted a lot of people to their site and that they planned both to fund the provision of the service to its users and to generate profits by selling advertising.

But before that, it was a piece of software that became popular, that is the bare bone of it. Bit Coin will become a piece of software that becomes available. Email was a piece of software that became available. Mobile phone technology was made more available to the general public.....see what I am getting at..its a piece of software that will someday be up there with FB, Amazon, Email, Mobile phone, remote storage, remote desktops remote spying and on and on....But this software is not owned by anyone, the value comes from the usage, much like everything I have just said

But then again who would have thought of driverless cars? Is that a bit more hard to imagine? Who owns the software behind that?

But whatever.......

[unc.si.]

The really interesting part is the blockchain technology. I've heard it mentioned recently as a way of solving the mexican standoff that you get in corporate acquisitions when debt providers won't release funds until shares have been transferred, lawyers won't release shares until funds have been received and equity funds have to be held in ESCROW until shares are released and banks have released funds. Relies on legal mechanisms, ESCROW and a pinch of good faith / common practice to work, and generally causes a lot of late nights, stress and cost. Blockchain tech could potentially solve all of that. I'm sure the same could be said for house purchases or buying a car.

What the currency is is almost irrelevant (although of course there has to be one). Its the tech platform behind it that holds the real value.

Bitcoin itself is a gamblers dream. Anything with that much volatility can make you a lot of money

or.....

[Striker]

Would you had bought shares in Fb when it started off? And knowing where it is now because it wasn't tangible.

Unlike Bitcoin, Facebook was always tangible. We knew who owned Facebook, we knew the responsibilities of the top executives, we knew that they attracted a lot of people to their site and that they planned both to fund the provision of the service to its users and to generate profits by selling advertising.

But before that, it was a piece of software that became popular, that is the bare bone of it. Bit Coin will become a piece of software that becomes available. Email was a piece of software that became available. Mobile phone technology was made more available to the general public.....see what I am getting at..its a piece of software that will someday be up there with FB, Amazon, Email, Mobile phone, remote storage, remote desktops remote spying and on and on....

But whatever.......

Of course I wouldn't seriously disagree with your main paragraph, but you're acting like a politician and answering a question that hasn't been asked, completely ignoring my point. In fact your "Whatever" suggests that you don't even understand it, or more likely are wilfully ignoring it. So it's time for me to sign off from this thread.

[Mav3rick]

I read a book about investors in silicon valley, and guys there would invest in 20 or more companies expecting only 1 of them to make any sort of return. The same was true at startups where people would just move from start up to start up accepting years and years of low wages in return for (mostly worthless) equity while hoping to hit the mother load with a Facebook float eventually.

The idea was driven by fear of missing the next Facebook, which being invested in would easily recoup the losses on the other 19 failed investments or lost earnings.

The issue with Finsimbo's examples is that he's picking out the 1 in 20 with hindsight as if it was obvious at the start, which it wasn't.

Crypto currencies may well be a great investment, but I'm not sure that buying bitcoins is the way to get a return, wouldn't you rather be owning shares in companies developing the tech, and with the acceptance that nobody can predict anything, you should be investing in 20 or more hoping to nail the right one.

All the bit coin promotion just gets my cynical senses tingling and makes me think of pyramid schemes if I'm honest, by the time everyone is recommending an investment the real money has usually been made.

[murf]

You aren't investing in the company Bitcoin Inc you are speculating on the 'currency'. Big difference.

It is a long way from a penny share start up so probably a good job!

[Dennisthemenace]

Bitcoin itself is a gamblers dream. Anything with that much volatility can make you a lot of money

or.....

First rule of gambling, don't gamble more than you can afford to lose. I can afford to lose £100 or so, so worth investing? If so, which broker is best to take care of my £100 and make me a millionaire by Christmas?

[Surprised]

Would you had bought shares in Fb when it started off? And knowing where it is now because it wasn't tangible.

Unlike Bitcoin, Facebook was always tangible. We knew who owned Facebook, we knew the responsibilities of the top executives, we knew that they attracted a lot of people to their site and that they planned both to fund the provision of the service to its users and to generate profits by selling advertising.

But before that, it was a piece of software that became popular, that is the bare bone of it. Bit Coin will become a piece of software that becomes available. Email was a piece of software that became available. Mobile phone technology was made more available to the general public.....see what I am getting at..its a piece of software that will someday be up there with FB, Amazon, Email, Mobile phone, remote storage, remote desktops remote spying and on and on....

But whatever.......

Email did not just arrive. It had people working on it and investors put money into it because they met the people and trusted they could deliver and they had mechanisms whereby they could track progress. Just like FB.
Bitcoin however has nothing.

[Finsimbo]

Bitcoin however has nothing.

The credibility of CME approval is actually making Wall Street take cryptocurrencies seriously.
Analyst Take:
We believe this expansion of crypto market cap could lead LTC back to $90.00 and then towards our $200.00 Litecoin price forecast. However, we are a little concerned that falling liquidity could impact that progress. We will continue to monitor the situation.

From https://www.profitconfidential.com/cryp ... y/litecoin

As Mav3rick says, there are many and he basically said what I tried in the beginning. I had been drawn to use 'BitCoin' in this thread as it's known, that wasn't my intention. Im not endorsing bitcoin, just the software behind the service and its which boat to get on as long as you don't mind loosing the money.

Me, gladly put £50 on a 'coin' and leave it.....few years it could be worth £8k then again it could be worth £5...whateva's

Bottom line for me....CC will come, but which one....that was the basics behind the thread but as it detoured I tried best to explain why I feel so strongly about it.

[Finsimbo]

In fact your "Whatever" suggests that you don't even understand it, or more likely are wilfully ignoring it. So it's time for me to sign off from this thread.

No it suggests I'm bored or repeating over and over that CC will be big and its a question of which one.

Like me do your own research, I'm not very good in putting into words what I mean, but I roughly know what I mean

[Finsimbo]

Visa card anyone?

https://www.engadget.com/2017/11/15/lon ... oncard-uk/

[mad dog]

So should I be buying £100 of bitcoin sharpish? And where from?

[Striker]

So should I be buying £100 of bitcoin sharpish? And where from?

In 1929 Joseph Kennedy said that "When the shoeshine boys talk stocks, it was a great sell signal".

So what are the shoeshine boys talking about today?

We haven't quite got their yet, as the shoeshine boys aren't yet recommending bitcoin. But yer never know.

Hope it doesn't happen as my daughter is sitting on a bitcoin profit. But not for me. I prefer the 25/1 bet that I'm holding on Might Bite in the King George.

[hancockjr]

So should I be buying £100 of bitcoin sharpish? And where from?

In 1929 Joseph Kennedy said that "When the shoeshine boys talk stocks, it was a great sell signal".

So what are the shoeshine boys talking about today?

We haven't quite got their yet, as the shoeshine boys aren't yet recommending bitcoin. But yer never know.

Hope it doesn't happen as my daughter is sitting on a bitcoin profit. But not for me. I prefer the 25/1 investment that I'm holding on Might Bite in the King George.

Corrected for you.

[Striker]

That's one view. But until such time as I lay it off, current prices suggest that the probability of success is still only around 27%, excluding the over-rounding. A greater than 73% chance of losing one's entire stake is in my view a bet, not an investment, unfortunately.

[morganb]

BitCoin covered by Martin "Money Saving Expert" Lewis:

https://blog.moneysavingexpert.com/2017 ... 1462792218

[Finsimbo]

read that this morning.

saying what I have been all along.

Research, understand what it is, how it will be used in the future and only invest what you can loose.

I have not bought into bitcoin, chose another but I bought as much as I would spend on a good night out, so its bought to HODL

[Mav3rick]

Another article here from Monevator, which is a personal finance blog with a focus on passive investing:

http://monevator.com/bitcoin-bubble/

[Finsimbo]

Another article here from Monevator, which is a personal finance blog with a focus on passive investing:

http://monevator.com/bitcoin-bubble/

And his conclusion:

"All the amazing investors I have met over the years share three traits: humility, frugality, and nerdiness.”

I nearly tick all those.

Frugality, only put in what you can afford to loose

Nerdiness, research, learn, and make your decision based on that

Humility, it's fun and not because I want a condo, because I might do better than I did in fantasy gaming. After all essentially it's fun with a possible financial reward, isn't that the basis of this website?

[Striker]

That's one view. But until such time as I lay it off, current prices suggest that the probability of success is still only around 27%, excluding the over-rounding. A greater than 73% chance of losing one's entire stake is in my view a bet, not an investment, unfortunately.

Mind you Hancock, now that's it's fully layed off, it's now an investment.

[hancockjr]

That's one view. But until such time as I lay it off, current prices suggest that the probability of success is still only around 27%, excluding the over-rounding. A greater than 73% chance of losing one's entire stake is in my view a bet, not an investment, unfortunately.

Mind you Hancock, now that's it's fully layed off, it's now an investment.

You'd better declare it for tax purposes then!

[sibrown4]

Interesting development this week with prepayment Card Revolut opening up the channels to make buying crypto currencies easier and cheaper.

https://www.finextra.com/newsarticle/31 ... d-ethereum

[Finsimbo]

Interesting development this week with prepayment Card Revolut opening up the channels to make buying crypto currencies easier and cheaper.

https://www.finextra.com/newsarticle/31 ... d-ethereum

Funny that, just downloaded their app, was going to have a look, apparently much better when dealing with foreign currency, which I have to do a lot

[murf]

All the hype around Bitcoin means many are jumping on board. The very basic law of supply and demand is therefore pushing up prices. The same law tells you that as soon as more start to take their gains rather than there are latecomers trying to jumping aboard it will decrease in price. That slow decrease will then turn into a torrent as everyone realises what is happy and tries to take their gains. This is very volatile and it won't just be a 10% decrease.

In 1929 Joseph Kennedy said that "When the shoeshine boys talk stocks, it was a great sell signal".

Don't wait too long for the second signal to sell on the initial downturn.

[Finsimbo]

Just a few moment ago bitcoin was £100 short of £13k a coin up £2.5k from yesterday or 26.5%



for a forecast

https://www.coinfan.net/forecasts/

[Surprised]

Steam have stopped taking Bitcoin as payment as it's too volatile

[Geoffv]

The boom in price yesterday has made the Times front page headline today. Interesting read.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bitc ... e5c62cb88a

[morganb]

And there's been a robbery!

Millions 'stolen' in NiceHash Bitcoin heist - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-42275523