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Keeper League?

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Keeper League?

Post by ctibbits » 08 Jul 2015, 20:37

Has anyone ever been involved in a keeper league for FPL? I am not referring to a league of only Goal Keepers (although that would be quite entertaining). What I am referring to is a league where the managers draft their teams with each player only being allowed on one team. So if the first pick was Sergio Aguero, only that team would have him for the season. Then at the end of the season the managers get to choose x amount of players as their "keepers" to retain for the following season. all kept players would be removed from the draft pool for the following season and a new draft would happen to fill out the remaining slots in the teams.

I have done these leagues in the past for baseball and they are fantastic as you get to build your team over time. I have never seen anything like it for FPL and would love to give it a shot if it already exists. If it doesn't then let me know if you would be interested in doing something like this. Of course there would need to be details worked out and all managers would need to paypal a determined entry fee to keep people interested.

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Re: Keeper League?

Post by MoSe » 09 Jul 2015, 08:33

ctibbits wrote:a league where the managers draft their teams with each player only being allowed on one team.
...
Then at the end of the season the managers get to choose x amount of players as their "keepers" to retain for the following season.
all kept players would be removed from the draft pool for the following season and a new draft would happen to fill out the remaining slots in the teams.
That was the original concept Fantasy Football was born with in 1990 (yes, in Italy 1 year earlier than in England :P)

When I researched a bit to document my "historical reference post" viewtopic.php?p=2611539#p2611539 ,
IIRC I found that several FF sites offer both or either style

For instance in Italy for Serie A we have:
the original FantaCalcio, offering "unique teams" only,
- either with an automated draft (based on each manager's "bid list"),
- or with a real auction (online single players bids ebay-style)
gazzetta.it (our main sports newspaper) "Magic", non unique teams, FPL-style

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy_f ... er_options

as for PL-based Fantasy Football, I hadn't researched in detail,
but with over a dozen specific FF Forums in our FISO site itself
viewforum.php?f=122
it could be worth checking there which game offers which style :)
___

the downside with unique teams is of course that with only 220 players getting a score each gameweek (plus up to 60 subs),
you can only compete vs a limited number of rival teams in a league (typically LESS than the 20 real clubs in FPL)

another issue is how would you intend to handle the initial draft/auction teams selection if you set up your own custom game,
without relying on the eventually existing unique-team sites draf/auction engines...

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Re: Keeper League?

Post by MoSe » 09 Jul 2015, 09:17

ctibbits wrote:Has anyone ever been involved in a keeper league for FPL?
BTW

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=116685

Ralfbergs seems to have been, as a private FPL sidegame

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Re: Keeper League?

Post by Ralfbergs » 09 Jul 2015, 09:29

ctibbits wrote:Has anyone ever been involved in a keeper league for FPL? I am not referring to a league of only Goal Keepers (although that would be quite entertaining). What I am referring to is a league where the managers draft their teams with each player only being allowed on one team. So if the first pick was Sergio Aguero, only that team would have him for the season. Then at the end of the season the managers get to choose x amount of players as their "keepers" to retain for the following season. all kept players would be removed from the draft pool for the following season and a new draft would happen to fill out the remaining slots in the teams.

I have done these leagues in the past for baseball and they are fantastic as you get to build your team over time. I have never seen anything like it for FPL and would love to give it a shot if it already exists. If it doesn't then let me know if you would be interested in doing something like this. Of course there would need to be details worked out and all managers would need to paypal a determined entry fee to keep people interested.
I play in a draft league each year with my friends (and we play using FPL, so it actually damages my performance in other leagues). We don't do the ''keeper'' part though, as we have a draft each year pre-season - something similar to that TV show ''The League'' (we actually have similar characters to that show in our league too :D). Another difference is that we can have transfers throughout the year - so if the first pick is Sergio Aguero, you can easily transfer him out if he is injured or whatever.
I think it would be quite hard to make through FISO though - there was something similar few years ago it seems viewtopic.php?f=82&t=89482 .

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Re: Keeper League?

Post by Ralfbergs » 09 Jul 2015, 09:32

MoSe wrote:
ctibbits wrote:Has anyone ever been involved in a keeper league for FPL?
BTW

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=116685

Ralfbergs seems to have been, as a private FPL sidegame
Yeah, if anyone has any suggestions for drafting a team, you're welcome to post there :) . I have been involved in such a league for 4 years, with my friends and I agree with ctibbits that it makes it much more interesting and somewhat more personal maybe, as you have your own unique team compared to others.

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Re: Keeper League?

Post by ctibbits » 09 Jul 2015, 15:40

Good point about the players Mose, hadn't thought of that. I think it is doable with some work but I would need to do it all via spreadsheets as I would not want to enter this "keeper league team" into FPL as my actual entry. Drafting would be a bit of a challenge also unless I was willing to fork out the cash for a gotomeeting site for the draft. Too crazy to think it could be done here? First pick posts, then second and so on? Might take hours but still doable right?

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Re: Keeper League?

Post by Droughton » 09 Jul 2015, 17:04

It is do-able. The best way to run it would be £5 or so entry and then you know people are actually serious about it.
Have a 'draft thread and keep it updated who is next and wait for them to post.
Then randomly assign everybody a number between 1-10 (not sure how you would do this - obviously in real life it could be lucky dip or similair) ....... Number 1 picks first through to 10 last. Then 10 goes again and back through up to 1 so he is last for the second pick. Then down and up over and over again ;) Until everybody has 11 players.
No captains as obviously the guys chosing 1-5 will have all the best captaincy options.
That is the fairest way of doing it really and if it was structured that way I would take part

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Re: Keeper League?

Post by ctibbits » 09 Jul 2015, 17:54

Yes "Serpentine" draft would be essential. No captains and we would need 15 players though or perhaps more because I image there would be no transfers during the season. You have what you have or we could find a way to work it out during the window in January perhaps? This makes two of us in and I bet we could get a few more. Need to cap it at 8 teams max I would think as the player selection would really be awful in the later rounds.

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Re: Keeper League?

Post by MoSe » 09 Jul 2015, 18:46

yeah that was the draft method adopted in the **FPL DRAFT LEAGUE 11/12** Ralfbergs had posted the link above viewtopic.php?f=82&t=89482

for clarity, I also expound "a bit" ;) the two alternate methods I hinted above
MoSe wrote:the original FantaCalcio, offering "unique teams" only,
- either with an automated draft (based on each manager's "bid list"),
- or with a real auction (online single players bids ebay-style)
http://www.fantacalcio.it/ (sorry no english, I'll provide a summary)
  • http://www.fantacalcio.kataweb.it/index ... asta_unica
    automated auction with complete bidding list submitted beforehand, and independently by each manager
    • each manager must prepare his own complete bidding list before the draft (the players list has to be provided in excel to every manager)
    • he must first split his budget into the 4 positions
      say 10 - 24 - 36 - 30
    • he must list his maximum bid for EVERY player :o
      (of course this can be made easier by copying 1 for all the players he's not really interested in)
      for instance, having allocated 24 for DEFs, and having to pick 5 DEFs, his top bid for a DEF can't exceed 20:
      if he gets it at that price, he'll have budget left to complete the position with minimum bids: 20 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 24
    • you should sort your bids in descending order within a position
       
    • all the managers lists must be submitted within the deadline to a third-party league runner
      (of course he can't play in that league or he'd get to see other players lists...)
       
    • a computer program (or the league runner by hand in excel ;))
      assigns the players to the teams position by position
    • it takes the highest bid from all the managers lists in that position
      • (in case of equal bids, prevails the manager who placed the player higher in his list,
        if still equal the one who got less players in that position so far,
        if also equal the one who submitted his liost earler)
      it takes then the second highest bid for that player
      and the highest bidder gets the player not at the price he offered, but at the (2nd highest bid price)+1
    • the remaining bids in that position for the manager who acquired the player, get decreased by a factor
      (progressivley after each purchase: in the linked site, they use 0.7 0.5 0.3 factors for the 2nd, 3rd, and for all the remaining slots respectively)
       
    • a manager might complete a position without having spent all his allocated budget: the leftover will be kept aside for the transfer market
    the preparation of the complete bidding list in advance might require a bit of an effort,
    but each manager can do that on his own independently, just having to respect the deadline
    Then an automated program (on the dedicated sites) will take care of all the team formation process
    it's a bit like the "simultaneous turn-based" online strategy games (see Stars!, or Diplomacy)
  • http://www.fantacalcio.kataweb.it/index ... a_continua
    single-players open online auction
    • that's basically an open auction market, ebay-style
      each manager is free to post his bid for any player anytime
      of course respecting his budget limit and the same-club rule
      he must check beforehand whether a standing bid for that player exist, and which is the current offer
      in that case, he can raise the bid
      if the latest bid remains unraised for a set amount of time (say 24 or 36 or 48 hours) then the player is acquired

    of course this is viable if done with a specific online program by a FF site,
    allowing to check the bidding status for each player, the current bid deadline, the remaining budget and roster for each mamanger
    it could become a full-time commitment (i.e. a nightmare!) if managed on a forum topic
___

I only posted this to show that alternate methods exist :mrgreen:

of course the "snakelike pick turns" adopted in the Draft League here on Fiso is the easiest to manage,
and fair enough too: NBA Draft works much like it
- you don't have to compete versus rival bids: when it's your turn to pick, you choose who you want with no one contending

they were just 5 players, and mcnulty gave 4hrs time for each pick to be posted
4h * 5 teams * 15 players = 300hrs maximum to complete the draft
it took them 7 days +18hrs = 186hrs
I wonder, if you have an 8-teams league, would the whole draft require an almost continuous TWO WEEKS commitment by the managers???

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Re: Keeper League?

Post by ctibbits » 09 Jul 2015, 19:46

MoSe wrote: I wonder, if you have an 8-teams league, would the whole draft require an almost continuous TWO WEEKS commitment by the managers???
I am sure that isn't necessary. If it was started soon enough the time allocated could be longer and surely most people would be prepared with a list of picks. So if the guy before you took who you wanted then you would just take the next on your list. In theory the entire thing could be done in a few hours if everyone was prepared.

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Re: Keeper League?

Post by MoSe » 09 Jul 2015, 19:50

in theory... :)
we should be better committed than the 5 guys were 4 years ago ;)

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Re: Keeper League?

Post by Droughton » 09 Jul 2015, 20:03

So is that 3 of us so far, in agreement of the 'snake' draft method.... We should set up the game / League and a deadline for joining. Get this thing underway

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Re: Keeper League?

Post by ctibbits » 09 Jul 2015, 20:15

Droughton wrote:So is that 3 of us so far, in agreement of the 'snake' draft method.... We should set up the game / League and a deadline for joining. Get this thing underway
Well it will all be done via spreadsheet so no need to set up a league. And I think deadline will be 7/27 which will mean if we start the draft on the 28th we will have plenty of time. thoughts?

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Re: Keeper League?

Post by MoSe » 10 Jul 2015, 07:21

ctibbits wrote:And I think deadline will be 7/27 which will mean if we start the draft on the 28th we will have plenty of time. thoughts?
from 17/7 to 3/8 included I'll only have internet access via smurfone (unless I go to the office to use my work PC while on leave...)
I think anyway, if I prepare my list in advance and print it, I could manage the draft from mobile as well :)

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Re: Keeper League?

Post by Sport Billy » 10 Jul 2015, 11:31

I may have the answer for you all.......

http://www.fantrax.com/fantasy/home.go? ... szibwkt14m

Fantrax.com Full draft league that I've set up. I use it all the time for Baseball and Golf. Really good website. I've set us a league up wih a draft date of Sunday August 2nd at 9.00pm provisionally, but that can change with debate! We all attend draft, pick players live and its all done in an hour. Really easy. I've set up points to mirror FPL by and large, but again that can be tinkered with. I can even assign points for goalkeeper smothers!!!

After you draft, unpicked players are available as free agents to pick. You can trade players with each other. All good stuff

I have to invite you to a slot by email, so if anyone wants to give it a whirl, send me your email address.

And honestly, its a super website, really functional with live scoring
Last edited by Sport Billy on 10 Jul 2015, 13:07, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Keeper League?

Post by Sport Billy » 10 Jul 2015, 11:34

League set up for 10 players, but that can also go up or down as interest peaks or wanes!

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Re: Keeper League?

Post by Sport Billy » 10 Jul 2015, 13:02

MoSe is aboard, we are 2!

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Re: Keeper League?

Post by Droughton » 10 Jul 2015, 17:04

How exactly does that work before we all sign up to it, 1 hour is a short space of time to pick players IMO

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Re: Keeper League?

Post by ctibbits » 10 Jul 2015, 17:12

It is short but if we are all prepared going in with a list and simply grab the next player on the list as they get taken. Seems valid to me and better than trying top run it all from an excel spreadsheet. No Budget limitations (don't think it will be an issue anyway), no captains points and a serpentine style draft are musts for me though. Then we just need to decide on how many keepers we have at the end of the season. I think it should be between 6-9 personally

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Re: Keeper League?

Post by Sport Billy » 10 Jul 2015, 17:56

The hour is a rough estimate of ten people picking 15 players each. You get a certain amount of time per pick, which I can change to as short or long as we like. Anything from 30 seconds to 5 minutes. Draft order will be randomised before the draft. If you're not at the draft or fail to pick in your allotted time, the game just assigns you the highest rated player available at the position you still need. Don't read too much into an hour

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Re: Keeper League?

Post by Sport Billy » 10 Jul 2015, 17:59

ctibbits wrote:It is short but if we are all prepared going in with a list and simply grab the next player on the list as they get taken. Seems valid to me and better than trying top run it all from an excel spreadsheet. No Budget limitations (don't think it will be an issue anyway), no captains points and a serpentine style draft are musts for me though. Then we just need to decide on how many keepers we have at the end of the season. I think it should be between 6-9 personally
There's no budget, no captain points and draft can be snake or linear. We can discuss all this between us when the league is full. It's fantasy in its purest form. No duplicate teams and wheeling and dealing to be done with free agents and trades through the season. Your player gets a hat trick? No-one else gets those points...

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Re: Keeper League?

Post by Sport Billy » 10 Jul 2015, 18:10

I've set it to 6 keepers (again open for debate), and another thing I forgot, you can trade future draft picks. For example I want Aguero, so I offer you sturridge. You decline (unsurprisingly!). I then offer you Sturridge and my first round pick next season. This makes you think twice as next season you now have 2 picks in the first round from the player pool, which will undoubtedly include new signings! I have Aguero, so I'm pleased, but I now don't get to pick until the second round next season, when the gems will be disappearing.....very good stuff

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Re: Keeper League?

Post by ctibbits » 10 Jul 2015, 18:20

Sport Billy wrote:I've set it to 6 keepers (again open for debate), and another thing I forgot, you can trade future draft picks. For example I want Aguero, so I offer you sturridge. You decline (unsurprisingly!). I then offer you Sturridge and my first round pick next season. This makes you think twice as next season you now have 2 picks in the first round from the player pool, which will undoubtedly include new signings! I have Aguero, so I'm pleased, but I now don't get to pick until the second round next season, when the gems will be disappearing.....very good stuff
This is exactly what I was going for! Perfect. How does the free agency work as far as getting new players? You can do it whenever or just during the two transfer windows? Is it done by waiver priority like in fantasy baseball?

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Re: Keeper League?

Post by Sport Billy » 10 Jul 2015, 18:24

Whenever you like. If someone drops a player, you pick him up. You have to drop one to pick one and stay in your maximum squad size though. There are also injured reserve spots. If you have a long term injury, but want to keep the player, he goes to injured reserve and you can replace him while he's out. When he's back fit though you need to drop a player. There are no transfer windows in this game friend. Tinker all day every day!

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Re: Keeper League?

Post by MoSe » 10 Jul 2015, 18:59

Ah, no budget, that'll make it easier :D

will we just use fantrax for the draft, or will we run the whole sidegame with it?
I browsed quickly thru League Rules from mobile, and I think I saw scoring and formation limits set up differently than FPL (unless I misread)

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Re: Keeper League?

Post by Sport Billy » 10 Jul 2015, 19:01

Whole draft is done through the site. Log in at draft time and it's all there waiting

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Re: Keeper League?

Post by Sport Billy » 10 Jul 2015, 19:05

MoSe wrote:Ah, no budget, that'll make it easier :D

will we just use fantrax for the draft, or will we run the whole sidegame with it?
I browsed quickly thru League Rules from mobile, and I think I saw scoring and formation limits set up differently than FPL (unless I misread)
I've set scoring up to mirror fpl broadly and its straight 4-4-2 all season

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Re: Keeper League?

Post by ctibbits » 10 Jul 2015, 20:43

We need to decide on how much the entry is also. I was thinking 10-20?

There is no flexibility on the formation from week to week?

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Re: Keeper League?

Post by Sport Billy » 10 Jul 2015, 22:13

Oh, are we having a cash game then? You don't have to on this site. Is it just to try and engender long term participation?

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Re: Keeper League?

Post by ctibbits » 10 Jul 2015, 22:40

Sport Billy wrote:Oh, are we having a cash game then? You don't have to on this site. Is it just to try and engender long term participation?
yes to keep people involved and to give a little more incentive to play it out.

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