Executors' Issues
- Vid
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Executors' Issues
Has anyone had experiences either as joint executors, or as family of joint executors, where one has decided to things things their way irrespective of little things like the opinion of the other(s), the will, what's legal?
Can't give the details behind the question right now and wouldn't expect too much information in any answers unless issues are long past.
Mainly interested in if one executor has done something that has resulted in legal action/ fines against the one, all or the estate.
Can't give the details behind the question right now and wouldn't expect too much information in any answers unless issues are long past.
Mainly interested in if one executor has done something that has resulted in legal action/ fines against the one, all or the estate.
- Mystery
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Re: Executors' Issues
Has the executor who has not acted "wrongly" actually performed any part of the role of executor? If not, they might be best placed renouncing the role leaving the family who have been "wronged" to take action against the remaining executor.
Caveat: No personal experience of the role but just offering a view
Caveat: No personal experience of the role but just offering a view
- Ashers
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Re: Executors' Issues
Hi Dave,
Have something very similar going on at the moment.
Again, can't say too much but the Solictors have said that one party can't overule a group's interest.
Have something very similar going on at the moment.
Again, can't say too much but the Solictors have said that one party can't overule a group's interest.
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Re: Executors' Issues
If there is more than one Executor, you have joint and several liability, which means that the act of one is binding on the other/s and one of you can be made to pay the liability, leaving you to claim a contribution from the others.
- Vid
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Re: Executors' Issues
@Mystery - executors are family and also the beneficiaries.
Should have been a simple enough job between the three of them to sort out, sort out the probate stuff, market the property, sell it, pay the taxes, split the proceeds, walk away. But no, one doesn't want to make it simple and is now proceeding with a course of action that does not have the full agreement of all executors, is detrimental to the estate and will break several laws in the process. Relinquishing the role at this stage might as well be agreement to the course of action, it needs something stronger to make it clear that any potential breaches of duties and laws are down those making the decisions to ignore the executor's duties and stick 2 fingers up to the law of the land and not those saying 'no!'
@Ashers - yeah, we're that far along and have no choice other than to push on with letters and may well be forced into taking it to court. Maybe we can compare notes in a few month's time?
I'd really like to know from someone that has already been down this road, fully accept that we'll be off the Xmas card list, defriended on FB and possibly extended family along with mutual friends will be forced to take sides regardless of the actual rights and wrongs.
Should have been a simple enough job between the three of them to sort out, sort out the probate stuff, market the property, sell it, pay the taxes, split the proceeds, walk away. But no, one doesn't want to make it simple and is now proceeding with a course of action that does not have the full agreement of all executors, is detrimental to the estate and will break several laws in the process. Relinquishing the role at this stage might as well be agreement to the course of action, it needs something stronger to make it clear that any potential breaches of duties and laws are down those making the decisions to ignore the executor's duties and stick 2 fingers up to the law of the land and not those saying 'no!'
@Ashers - yeah, we're that far along and have no choice other than to push on with letters and may well be forced into taking it to court. Maybe we can compare notes in a few month's time?
I'd really like to know from someone that has already been down this road, fully accept that we'll be off the Xmas card list, defriended on FB and possibly extended family along with mutual friends will be forced to take sides regardless of the actual rights and wrongs.
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Re: Executors' Issues
Sorry my only experience of executors/probate etc was in a situation where everyone cooperated well and it was simplicity itself. However if I, or someone close to me, was ever in the situation that you describe my first move would be to spend half an hour with a good solicitor. Furthermore if I didn't gel well with him/her and didn't feel that they were very competent, I'd then spend half an hour with another solicitor. A few quid spent as early as possible, even if it isn't that early, might be good value compared with a potential mess down the line,
- unc.si.
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Re: Executors' Issues
Sympathies Vid - my only experience of this was in the capacity of an expert witness on a company valuation in a probate case. A very sad tale of greed which ripped the family apart. Co-incidentally was acting about 5 or 6 years later for another party buying the same business and the family apparently still weren't talking to each other.
Hope it doesn't get too messy.
Hope it doesn't get too messy.
- Vid
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Re: Executors' Issues
Hmm, had an hour and a half earlier, the idea was that I was supposed to do most of the talking, but I'm not the client and to me too much was said that took the discussion down the wrong track. It took an hour until I could drag it back to the key points. We'll see what happens.Striker wrote: ↑23 Aug 2017, 17:18 Sorry my only experience of executors/probate etc was in a situation where everyone cooperated well and it was simplicity itself. However if I, or someone close to me, was ever in the situation that you describe my first move would be to spend half an hour with a good solicitor. Furthermore if I didn't gel well with him/her and didn't feel that they were very competent, I'd then spend half an hour with another solicitor. A few quid spent as early as possible, even if it isn't that early, might be good value compared with a potential mess down the line,
- Vid
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Re: Executors' Issues
This family ripped itself apart long before I came on the scene, I did think that maybe things were changing for the better, but in now appears some nice words were just contrived to distract from the agenda. This episode will certainly end communication until one of them ides.unc.si. wrote: ↑23 Aug 2017, 17:49 Sympathies Vid - my only experience of this was in the capacity of an expert witness on a company valuation in a probate case. A very sad tale of greed which ripped the family apart. Co-incidentally was acting about 5 or 6 years later for another party buying the same business and the family apparently still weren't talking to each other.
Hope it doesn't get too messy.
- bluenosey
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Re: Executors' Issues
I'm assuming that there is no professional executor amongst the three ?
The problem you've got is any disagreement between executors can end up in a long drawn out legal process. Potentially you could end up with one Solicitor v another. Would cost a fortune.
Are the executors different from the beneficiaries ? If the beneficiaries agree, you could maybe write a Codicil ?
But overall this is tricky
The problem you've got is any disagreement between executors can end up in a long drawn out legal process. Potentially you could end up with one Solicitor v another. Would cost a fortune.
Are the executors different from the beneficiaries ? If the beneficiaries agree, you could maybe write a Codicil ?
But overall this is tricky
- Vid
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Re: Executors' Issues
Things have moved on so I think I'm safe to flesh things out a bit.
My MiL died 10 weeks ago, her 3 daughters (one of which is MrsVid) are all executors and the only beneficiaries. A life time of junk (some of which may or may not be worth something to someone), a few quid in bank accounts and a house make up the estate.
Referring back to this thread, having said before going that her 2 sisters should do what needed to be done, on her return she went off on one big time for starting to inform people, including making a choice of funeral directors and complaining bitterly 'where's my control?', something she didn't mean to say out loud, but that says a great deal about her. She'd stated that some of the things the other 2 sisters undertook 'didn't need to be done for months' until they met with a solicitor the following week and then push, push, push to get the necessities done.
Th funeral went better than I thought it would, at least that side of things was reasonably well respected.
A few issues along the way that we let slide as not worth arguing about, some more annoying than others. In a very contrived conversation, very clear to me at the time and I was stupid enough to ask the desired question regarding finding a potential tenant for a short term let of the property. Surprise, surprise she knew someone that would be ideal, MrsVid agreed on the understanding that it would be done properly = legally, as MrsVid works for a bank if she is involved in any financial irregularities then the result is instant dismissal, no questions, no excuses, no appeal, gone.
It'll be around month ago that it was agreed to go ahead, MrsVid says that she's started drafting a tenancy agreement 'there you go, taking control again, I'll do one myself', 'so will I' from other sister. Nothing forthcoming from either, contact to 'other' sister 'I haven't done it, don't have the time'. A meeting with 'control' 3 weeks ago to try to iron things out did not go well as she huffed off with nothing resolved.
Last weekend with a week to go until the proposed tenancy was to commence I found some time to have a look online, their whole concept was flawed, they don't own the house, the estate does, they only own the house after probate is granted. Income is not theirs, it belongs to the estate and is liable for income tax. I sent an email to the other 2 repeating that MrsVid's job was on the line if everything wasn't done legally and as it appeared that it wasn't being then her consent was withdrawn, no surprise that my email was ignored.
The letter sent by the solicitor we saw on Wednesday, that was drafted and sent yesterday clearly hasn't been ignored, tenancy is now off and everybody is angry. I'll repeat that MrsVid had no issues with a fixed 1 year tenancy if it was done to the letter of the law and included protection for the estate.
Mrs 'not going to be your tenant' has agreed with the other 2 a sum of £5k in compensation, shame that all 3 have to agree to any payments from the estate isn't it? Our solicitor has requested by return that she itemise the costs that she believes are liable to the estate.
No sitting tenant should make the house easier to sell when probate is granted, assuming all 3 agree to it being sold and any offer received, this is going to rumble on for ages!!!
My MiL died 10 weeks ago, her 3 daughters (one of which is MrsVid) are all executors and the only beneficiaries. A life time of junk (some of which may or may not be worth something to someone), a few quid in bank accounts and a house make up the estate.
Referring back to this thread, having said before going that her 2 sisters should do what needed to be done, on her return she went off on one big time for starting to inform people, including making a choice of funeral directors and complaining bitterly 'where's my control?', something she didn't mean to say out loud, but that says a great deal about her. She'd stated that some of the things the other 2 sisters undertook 'didn't need to be done for months' until they met with a solicitor the following week and then push, push, push to get the necessities done.
Th funeral went better than I thought it would, at least that side of things was reasonably well respected.
A few issues along the way that we let slide as not worth arguing about, some more annoying than others. In a very contrived conversation, very clear to me at the time and I was stupid enough to ask the desired question regarding finding a potential tenant for a short term let of the property. Surprise, surprise she knew someone that would be ideal, MrsVid agreed on the understanding that it would be done properly = legally, as MrsVid works for a bank if she is involved in any financial irregularities then the result is instant dismissal, no questions, no excuses, no appeal, gone.
It'll be around month ago that it was agreed to go ahead, MrsVid says that she's started drafting a tenancy agreement 'there you go, taking control again, I'll do one myself', 'so will I' from other sister. Nothing forthcoming from either, contact to 'other' sister 'I haven't done it, don't have the time'. A meeting with 'control' 3 weeks ago to try to iron things out did not go well as she huffed off with nothing resolved.
Last weekend with a week to go until the proposed tenancy was to commence I found some time to have a look online, their whole concept was flawed, they don't own the house, the estate does, they only own the house after probate is granted. Income is not theirs, it belongs to the estate and is liable for income tax. I sent an email to the other 2 repeating that MrsVid's job was on the line if everything wasn't done legally and as it appeared that it wasn't being then her consent was withdrawn, no surprise that my email was ignored.
The letter sent by the solicitor we saw on Wednesday, that was drafted and sent yesterday clearly hasn't been ignored, tenancy is now off and everybody is angry. I'll repeat that MrsVid had no issues with a fixed 1 year tenancy if it was done to the letter of the law and included protection for the estate.
Mrs 'not going to be your tenant' has agreed with the other 2 a sum of £5k in compensation, shame that all 3 have to agree to any payments from the estate isn't it? Our solicitor has requested by return that she itemise the costs that she believes are liable to the estate.
No sitting tenant should make the house easier to sell when probate is granted, assuming all 3 agree to it being sold and any offer received, this is going to rumble on for ages!!!
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