Yeah, it’s the Allardici/Pardiola argument, even if the likes of those two help perpetuate the stereotype of the “Mike Bassett” teacup-throwing English boss. British managers are unfashionable, particularly those who made their name in the lower leagues. But anyone from the continent, even if from a similar background, seemingly doesn’t have the same issue. An exotic name trumps genuine credentials for the job... but then again, so does a local hero from his playing days, more often than not.Zimmerman wrote: ↑09 Dec 2019, 12:54 A club will take a punt on Puel, Hasenhüttl or Villa-Boas... but not a punt on a British manager?
I bet if you offered Everton fans Howe - they’d be against it. Doubly so after the performance on Saturday under Ferguson. Will be interesting to see if they give him the job (I assume he must have the badges to even be put in temporary charge)?
Crap managers who keep getting jobs
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Re: Crap managers who keep getting jobs
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Had forgotten about this... AVB’s Marseille looking a pretty handy “best of the rest” in Ligue 1 right now.Zimmerman wrote: ↑28 May 2019, 16:21 After two years twiddling his thumbs, Villa Boas is back (appointed at Marseille)
After 6 jobs in 8 years, he’s back for no.7
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2019– Marseille
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As noted before, English/British managers who have come from a lower level (even succesful mid-Premiership) just don't seem to shift mindset into "big club mode" (eg Moyes and Hodgson, debatably Rodgers) and seem like fish out of water. Easier for foreigners or local heroes (Dalglish, Lampard, maybe Ole or even Ljunberg? and plenty on the continent like Zidane) - maybe they understand the 'big club mentality' from their playing days and just slot in.
I don't understand it but it seems to be a real thing with nobody much proving my theory wrong.
I don't understand it but it seems to be a real thing with nobody much proving my theory wrong.
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I think there was a post way back that talked about chairman not wanting to make a decision that exposed them... so they go for tried and tested managers.
I suppose it’s an extension of that.
The recent examples that go against that are Moyes replacing SAF and Rodgers coming it at Liverpool. Moyes was always a poisoned chalice (and doomed) whilst Rogers took over a team that had been averaging 6-8 place for a few years.
The ex-players getting a crack is purely because it’s acceptable to fans as a failed gamble. He’s a club legend and/or ‘one of ours’. Giving Ferdinand a crack at being manager would be more acceptable that Graham Potter. It’s a nonsensical assumption to assume that a good player = a good manager (this has been proven countless times, but is infinitely more likely to be given a chance than a lower league (or mid table) manager getting a top job.
But there’s some sort of snobbery in football. Just like it’s virtually impossible to get a job without having been a pro-player.
Or pundits. Most (UK) pundits are thick as shit and offer no technical or tactical insight... but without fail, they are all ex-players.
I suppose it’s an extension of that.
The recent examples that go against that are Moyes replacing SAF and Rodgers coming it at Liverpool. Moyes was always a poisoned chalice (and doomed) whilst Rogers took over a team that had been averaging 6-8 place for a few years.
The ex-players getting a crack is purely because it’s acceptable to fans as a failed gamble. He’s a club legend and/or ‘one of ours’. Giving Ferdinand a crack at being manager would be more acceptable that Graham Potter. It’s a nonsensical assumption to assume that a good player = a good manager (this has been proven countless times, but is infinitely more likely to be given a chance than a lower league (or mid table) manager getting a top job.
But there’s some sort of snobbery in football. Just like it’s virtually impossible to get a job without having been a pro-player.
Or pundits. Most (UK) pundits are thick as shit and offer no technical or tactical insight... but without fail, they are all ex-players.
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YepZimmerman wrote: ↑09 Dec 2019, 18:13 But there’s some sort of snobbery in football. Just like it’s virtually impossible to get a job without having been a pro-player.
Or pundits. Most (UK) pundits are thick as shit and offer no technical or tactical insight... but without fail, they are all ex-players.
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Re: Crap managers who keep getting jobs
Hodgson had managed Inter Milan, so it shouldn’t really have been an issue... and barely counted as a British manager having spent nearly all his earlier career abroad. He was probably just the wrong man at the wrong time with Liverpool, replacing a popular manager at a time of ownership crisis.murf wrote: ↑09 Dec 2019, 17:39 As noted before, English/British managers who have come from a lower level (even succesful mid-Premiership) just don't seem to shift mindset into "big club mode" (eg Moyes and Hodgson, debatably Rodgers) and seem like fish out of water. Easier for foreigners or local heroes (Dalglish, Lampard, maybe Ole or even Ljunberg? and plenty on the continent like Zidane) - maybe they understand the 'big club mentality' from their playing days and just slot in.
I don't understand it but it seems to be a real thing with nobody much proving my theory wrong.
For those who do come from lower leagues, I guess it’s hard to shake off that underdog mentality, and the less sophisticated nature of the football. Maybe the B team model in Europe does provide a better platform for managers.
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Yep to the B Team\Club idea. I had never thought of that as another of the benefits.....
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Indeed, and where MU probably went wrong ie a phased handover from SAF without the DM boot or broom ousting the trusted lieutenants.....
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Many MU lieutenants in the AF era jumped out of the passenger seat to manage elsewhere didn't they? From memory those that did and somehow remained in employment deserved to feature on this thread (Kidd and arguably McLaren. Anyone else? What did Phelan do?)
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There was the Dutch(?) bod too, but I think internally would have been different, but then probably none of that list
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Phelan managed Hull... Queiroz managed Real, briefly, and his national team...
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McSpannerman is rocking the "English pundits are plain thick" this evening.....
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Do we need a new subset: "Crap managers who keep getting jobs at the same clubs"?
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He's not a crap manager he is just a very naughty boy
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Ian Holloway. Grimsby. Nuff said.
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His 7th job in 14 years.
He can’t be short of money and presumably lives in the south west? Could you be arsed taking a job at Grimsby (especially when they are flirting with relegation in the 4th tier) and won’t be paying him anything significant (I assume).
He can’t be short of money and presumably lives in the south west? Could you be arsed taking a job at Grimsby (especially when they are flirting with relegation in the 4th tier) and won’t be paying him anything significant (I assume).
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Who you gonna call? Alan Pardew & Chris Powell get the Ghostbusters treatment
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51 ... e=facebook
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51 ... e=facebook
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Simon Grayson, 4 promotions from League One, but always finds the Championship a tough task.
He must be getting close to an honourable mention here.
He must be getting close to an honourable mention here.
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Larry’s the League One Warnock... tends to get a nosebleed when he goes above his normal level. Hasn’t worked out for him this time at Blackpool, though... and that should have been quite an easy job, given the club is on a high having rid itself of the Oyston curse.foxinthebox2001 wrote: ↑12 Feb 2020, 16:17 Simon Grayson, 4 promotions from League One, but always finds the Championship a tough task.
He must be getting close to an honourable mention here.
Colin and ‘Olly both linked to the job, favourites of this thread...
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Oh please, he blamed the EU for VAR?
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Make that two pints
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No doubt he'll be the first to complain about not being able to sign a bod from the EU in a season or 2.....
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Let's just hope the French don't get access to some of Grimsby's fishing waters. That's the only reason he's there, isn't it, for the fish n chips
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Or Dracula?
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Isn't Whitby further north?
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