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Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2019/20

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thebillfella
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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2019/20

Post by thebillfella »

blahblah wrote: 27 Jul 2020, 20:23
Bob Newhart wrote: 27 Jul 2020, 20:21
blahblah wrote: 27 Jul 2020, 20:18If he can play WR then all the better to help with rotation.
If he can play WR, the Washington Football Team could use him more than us.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I merely meant that A RW to ease Greenwood to CF is good, especially if they can play LW as I am not a huge Rashford fan......
CB, RW and CF the key additions needed to challenge is the general consensus. CB needs to have pace and be better than what we currently have.

CF needs to be a natural no.9 - all the lads we have so far are 2nd strikers really (better facing up and running at defenders rather than running in behind) although eventually Greenwood could develop into that role so RW addition alone may free him up but really we need another option anyway. RW to either step into the starting XI or challenge the current front 3.

An additional creative mid to challenge Bruno / Pogba would also help and a LB to replace Shaw if Ole decides he isn't the answer also options but of lesser importance.

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2019/20

Post by hancockjr »

I get that judging a manager is very subjective, and it's easy to shape events to one's own beliefs, but if you really think the "upturn in fortunes", where Man U's best result since lockdown is what - beating Sheff United? An injury hit, out of form Leicester? is evidence Solskjaer is a good manager then good luck - and to declare people are "wrong" and "not man enough to admit it" if they disagree just says more about the manner in which you and some others have felt it acceptable to conduct a debate (including on TRK); it's not what I'd be comfortable with personally.

My belief is that he got away with it by the skin of his teeth; Bruno was out on his feet, yet had played against Norwich and Chelsea in the cup as well as all the league games. That's not good management.

However the facts are that United won 66 points this season. If you're happy with that then fine, but it's a sign of how far they've fallen. If you're happy with the direction, then I'm afraid it's flatlined - you'll find they got 66 points last season too. The season before they got 81. The rest is just fluff and nonsense.

Congratulations on your FPL finish though - and best of luck in FPL next season.

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2019/20

Post by thebillfella »

Ole explained why he had to persevere with playing the first XI - they were pushing as hard as possible and clearly he didn't think the backup was up to the same level (and let's be honest he'd be right). How often does Klopp rest Salah, Mane, Firminho or van Dijk - that's clearly ok I guess?

As for your focus on post lockdown fixtures, well we can't do much about how the fixtures fall but don't forget we were the form team just before the lockdown as well weren't we, including 2 wins vs. City and 1 vs. Chelsea. Inconvenient?

No, of course we are not "happy" with 66 (were you for 28 years?!), but the direction of travel is positive now after some necessary surgery (there was always going to be a go backwards before you go forwards correction while clearing out and replacing deadwood - which still isn't complete yet) and it is better than most "neutrals" were incorrectly predicting.

I've already said this so no need to twist words, and if you can only base your view on the points total at the end of the season rather than how the playing style has improved then that might explain why you don't understand or agree?

We've absolutely still got a way to go but we are clearly getting better and will be closer next season I'm sure. How close depends on how competent Ed is over the next 8 weeks or so. Conversely, Spurs under Jose go backwards.

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2019/20

Post by murf »

The direction of travel is positive

81-66-66

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2019/20

Post by thebillfella »

Struggling with that aren't you murf - if you can't quantify it you cant see it?

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2019/20

Post by hancockjr »

This thread is so reminiscent of the old Arsenal one - blinkered fans, jam tomorrow, manager can do no wrong and besides it's how you play not the results. I expect Mason Greenwood will be the new Jack Wilshere too?

But in answer to your rather odd Liverpool references (Liverpool's performance and actions are not relevant to Man Us):

- go look up Liverpool's FA cup sides and see whether he rested the main players (hint - he did!)
- I don't think Liverpool's fans were happy with 66 points in any season, but neither did they claim the manager was the second coming, all good things were down to him (or, at one point, them), all problems were always the fault of the owners (just sometimes...), or that they'd got their "DNA" back so points totals don't really matter anyway, given that X was the youngest player to score a hat-trick on a Friday including at least one header...

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2019/20

Post by thebillfella »

- the scouser responses on this thread are so reminiscent of the last 45 years (can't comment beyond that but I am led to believe you were just as bad then!)

- go look up Ole's League Cup and FA Cup sides earlier in the competition and see whether he rested the main players (hint - he did!). Now go and compare total number of games for the main players both sides. Totally relevant as it demonstrated complete hypocracy in your view

- United fans have never, ever, claimed Ole is the second coming, merely that he deserves to be given time rather than summarily fired as you would have done as he clearly gets the United Way that all but you scousers acknowledges exists and that we have lost our way with since SAF departed and no-one really being the custodian (don't know why - maybe a deep routed jealousy that United has that enviable identity through the years but Liverpool doesn't really have any identity?) #denial

- However, we all remember the annual scouse boom-bust cycle and the monotonous "next year is our year" mantra for the last 30 years. Despite this, they were still an inconsistent mess behind United until VVD arrived - that was only 2.5 years ago. A lot can change in a short space of time, hence the reason to stay positive rather than dismissive. Do I think that will happen next season? No probably not, but I am sure progression will occur again and it will be closer.

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2019/20

Post by hancockjr »

You don't just "count games" to see if someone needs resting, it's rather more complicated than that. As are a lot of things, I'm afraid.

By the way, I don't know anyone who wants Ole fired - Non Man U fans love him being manager, no complex reasons behind that!

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2019/20

Post by hancockjr »

Just listened to the Guardian podcast. Jonathan Wilson, who probably knows more about football than everyone on here put together, also wasn't "man" enough to admit he was "wrong" as well. What a prat, eh?

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2019/20

Post by thebillfella »

He's a journalist hancockjr, so we're going to disagree about whether he "probably knows more about football than everyone on here put together". He's never played the game to any level greater than everyone on here, and thus all he has is an opinion just like everyone else.

I can find just as many opinions online backing up my view on Ole (from people who have played / managed the game professionally and thus I would argue are more credible - albeit I never truly buy into this completely anyway - in terms of "probably knowing more about football than everyone on here put together") as you can find from those whose job it is to produce click-bait.

I certainly don't agree with his original (quite frankly lazy journalism) opinion, and am not surprised that once he has gone to print with it that he is too stubborn / cowardly to change his view despite clearly significant improvements on the pitch between then and now. So yes, what a prat indeed!!!

And in instances like these I like to refer to a famous quote from giddy scientist Brian Cox: “The problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!”

And particularly appropriate when a deeply entrenched polar view is formed to an assumed position rather than taking the time to read what has actually been said.

Just to remind, no-one has ever said Ole is "the 2nd coming" as you so flippantly and incorrectly state (and no-one is claiming he is better than Pep / Klopp etc); only that he understands the club MO / values (something that the previous 3 did not, especially without a DoF to police it), has turned the direction of the club around and deserves to be given a chance / time now that he is appointed. And thus those that were claiming he was out of his depth and needing to be sacked / replaced were at the very least a bit too knee-jerky...

I'd say exactly the same wrt Lampard and Arteta (although slightly earlier days for him of course) right now.

Getting rid of him now would just be a total lack of class and the sort of short-termism thing some other clubs would possibly do but I hope (and I believe) we are better than that.

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2019/20

Post by hancockjr »

I wouldn't expect you to agree with JW just because he is extremely knowledgeable, and I have no doubt you can find equally knowledgeable people who support you.

The point is that people are giving opinions, whereas you're asserting that your opinion is fact ("You were wrong", "not man enough to admit it"). That's what actually lacks class. Perhaps you should take a leaf out of Manchester United's book and "be better than that", eh?

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2019/20

Post by thebillfella »

thebillfella wrote: 29 Jul 2020, 14:19 “The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!”

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2019/20

Post by Dot »

Oi Bill in another life were you a "Duck Billed Platypus "

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2019/20

Post by thebillfella »

And right on cue...

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2019/20

Post by Bob Newhart »

thebillfella wrote: 29 Jul 2020, 14:19Brian Cox: “The problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it.
"And if one does what God does enough times, one will become as God is".

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2019/20

Post by blahblah »

Bob Newhart wrote: 29 Jul 2020, 20:01
thebillfella wrote: 29 Jul 2020, 14:19Brian Cox: “The problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it.
"And if one does what God does enough times, one will become as God is".
That's deep :| :| :| :|

:lol:

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2019/20

Post by ffstuff »

blahblah wrote: 29 Jul 2020, 20:05
Bob Newhart wrote: 29 Jul 2020, 20:01
thebillfella wrote: 29 Jul 2020, 14:19Brian Cox: “The problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it.
"And if one does what God does enough times, one will become as God is".
That's deep :| :| :| :|

:lol:
Often hear my Mrs telling me that ...

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2019/20

Post by murf »

Bob Newhart wrote:
thebillfella wrote: 29 Jul 2020, 14:19Brian Cox: “The problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it.
"And if one does what God does enough times, one will become as God is".
You can try and think like me or even act like me but you can never be me.

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2019/20

Post by Dot »

ffstuff wrote: 29 Jul 2020, 20:11
blahblah wrote: 29 Jul 2020, 20:05
Bob Newhart wrote: 29 Jul 2020, 20:01
thebillfella wrote: 29 Jul 2020, 14:19Brian Cox: “The problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it.
"And if one does what God does enough times, one will become as God is".
That's deep :| :| :| :|

:lol:
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When you go swinging you mean

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2019/20

Post by Darbyand »

Darbyand wrote: 20 Jul 2020, 12:21 Horrible performance from the CBs yesterday. Assuming Maguire is here to stay we need an upgrade on Lindelof. Your average League 2 CB would have got goalside of Giroud yesterday (and the player for the Southampton equaliser). He's got no pace, loses the majority of his headers and physical battles. If budgets are tight I think the likes of Ake or Mings could do a better job.

Anyway, now is not the time to panic. At the start of the season we'd have taken 2 draws needed home to West Ham and away to Leicester to win the Wenger Trophy. Slightly sad but true.
Hmmm a tight budget no good if you wanted Ake. Off to City for £41m apparently!!

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2019/20

Post by S_sutton87 »

Darbyand wrote:
Darbyand wrote: 20 Jul 2020, 12:21 Horrible performance from the CBs yesterday. Assuming Maguire is here to stay we need an upgrade on Lindelof. Your average League 2 CB would have got goalside of Giroud yesterday (and the player for the Southampton equaliser). He's got no pace, loses the majority of his headers and physical battles. If budgets are tight I think the likes of Ake or Mings could do a better job.

Anyway, now is not the time to panic. At the start of the season we'd have taken 2 draws needed home to West Ham and away to Leicester to win the Wenger Trophy. Slightly sad but true.
Hmmm a tight budget no good if you wanted Ake. Off to City for £41m apparently!!
Woodward missed a trick here really rate ake

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2019/20

Post by Bob Newhart »

S_sutton87 wrote: 30 Jul 2020, 13:09Woodward missed a trick here
No surprise there, then :roll:

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2019/20

Post by murf »

Ake isn't worth £40m. Is he??? (mind you Liverpool got over £10m for Lovren who is 31 - and the press reckon they are selling Stones for £35m)

He's quite good but I thought City would go for someone really top notch like Koulibaly. Mind you they'll probably get both now. No idea how good Diego Carlos is but he has also been linked with Citeh at silly money.

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2019/20

Post by Darbyand »

According to the M.E.N. there are problems between City and Napoli dating back to Jorginho going to Chelsea.

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2019/20

Post by Bob Newhart »

murf wrote: 30 Jul 2020, 13:25Liverpool got over £10m for Lovren...
One born every minute :lol:

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2019/20

Post by blahblah »

Bob Newhart wrote: 30 Jul 2020, 13:33
murf wrote: 30 Jul 2020, 13:25Liverpool got over £10m for Lovren...
One born every minute :lol:
Oi! He is the BEST CB THE WORLD HAS SEEN. EVER!

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2019/20

Post by murf »

Should have added in David Luiz's various transfer fees! :lol:

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2019/20

Post by Bob Newhart »

blahblah wrote: 30 Jul 2020, 13:37
Bob Newhart wrote: 30 Jul 2020, 13:33
murf wrote: 30 Jul 2020, 13:25Liverpool got over £10m for Lovren...
One born every minute :lol:
Oi! He is the BEST CB THE WORLD HAS SEEN. EVER!
Surely that was Titus?

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2019/20

Post by blahblah »

Bob Newhart wrote: 30 Jul 2020, 14:56
blahblah wrote: 30 Jul 2020, 13:37
Bob Newhart wrote: 30 Jul 2020, 13:33
murf wrote: 30 Jul 2020, 13:25Liverpool got over £10m for Lovren...
One born every minute :lol:
Oi! He is the BEST CB THE WORLD HAS SEEN. EVER!
Surely that was Titus?
Titus was too modest for his own good 😂😂😂

He really should have been so good, but went to 1 of the 2 Premier Lge Graveyards .....

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2019/20

Post by thebillfella »

thebillfella wrote: 20 Jul 2020, 13:53
He absolutely needs a partner with pace but that isn't unusual (Terry, Adams and Vidic were the same) and I think it is common knowledge that we are still on the hunt for one (and by that I mean a world class one - I don't really see Mings or Ake as any better that Lindelof or Tuanzebe tbh)
Stand by this still - if you going to go out and spend on a CB to improve your defence then it's got to be one that is better than what is already there (we don't need more bodies even if we are offloading Smalling, Jones and Rojo - need to leave space for the youth coming through to progress as well).

I think Ake is better than City's CBs (other than Laporte of course) but not better than Lindelof or Tuanzebe IMO so doesn't disappoint me at all. Now Titus or Lovren on the other hand... :shock:

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