View Latest: 1 Day | FISO Injury Search

Chelsea

A forum for discussion on Football matters not involving fantasy issues.
raoul
Grumpy Old Man
Posts: 1124
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:32
FS Record: got up to 3rd in TFF overall one Christmas about 15 years ago ... and won Football Fantastic (how I miss thee) one year. Apart from that, pants.

Chelsea

Post by raoul » 31 Jan 2019, 14:32

So Chelsea got thumped.

I have not seen the game at all, so my question is whether anyone specific was at fault? Any defenders at risk of being dropped, for example?

Only thing I have picked up was Higuain's preference for passing to Hazard rather than shooting, but I guess that is a teething issue they will resolve.

User avatar
Vid
Head Moderator
Posts: 20068
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:33
Location: looking forward to a holiday!
FS Record: winning seems a distant memory
FISO Goals: Score: 15 Position: 61

Re: Chelsea

Post by Vid » 31 Jan 2019, 17:56

2 main problems, Sarri & Jorginho, who else is on the pitch is immaterial.

'Sarri-ball' doesn't work, especially in the EPL. Having a 'regista' that sits just in front of the back 4 playing dozens of short sideways and backwards passes means that whoever he plays the ball to is immediately under pressure and allows the opposition defence to set itself. Eventually the ball gets to Hazzard/ Willian/ Pedro, Hudson-Odi who are now faced with 3/4/5 players to dribble past, or play the ball backwards again. Should they manage to get past 3-5 defenders there has been plenty of time for 2/3 players to mark the CF/ striker/ false 9, who will then rarely get any chance whatsoever to make an attempt on goal.

The manager can't motivate the players, he's already admitted it, simply because they know that his tactics cannot possibly work in the EPL, but 500x 5 foot sideways/ backwards passes make the possession stats look good.

User avatar
Stevieste
FISOhead
Posts: 838
Joined: 19 Aug 2017, 10:28
FS Record: 1500

Re: Chelsea

Post by Stevieste » 31 Jan 2019, 18:45

It does not help that the best defensive midfielder in the world that helped win Leicester and Chelsea the prem title is playing completly out of postion.

Chelsea have such a good squad of players, but the formation there playing is not suited to them at all.

Sarri needs to change his tactics, or be expecting to change jobs soon.

User avatar
Zimmerman
FISO Jedi Knight
Posts: 28234
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:42
Location: having a picnic at the Bear Mountain

Re: Chelsea

Post by Zimmerman » 31 Jan 2019, 18:56

What about when they won their first 8 games or whatever it was?

Ballsing up Kantes position to facilitate his man does seem counter productive... but I wonder if that’s just because he doesn’t trust the alternatives?

Fabregas and Barkley aren’t viable options, Pedro is only a squad player, Bakayoko needing shipping out. Alonso is limited. Morata obviously hasnt adapted to the PL. So Sarri has had his hands tied (to a degree). All these issues and limitations pre-date Sarri.

With Pulisic with Higuain... things might look very different. Big question mark is whether or not Pulisic is in addition to Hazard or instead of (I suspect we all know the answer).

User avatar
Vid
Head Moderator
Posts: 20068
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:33
Location: looking forward to a holiday!
FS Record: winning seems a distant memory
FISO Goals: Score: 15 Position: 61

Re: Chelsea

Post by Vid » 31 Jan 2019, 19:00

Zimmerman wrote:
31 Jan 2019, 18:56
What about when they won their first 8 games or whatever it was?
Takes time for some to work things out, I'm quite sure you'll find a post of mine from very early in the season saying we're on for quite a few hammerings with these tactics, there will be worse to come before this season ends.

User avatar
forestfan
FISO Knight
Posts: 15515
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:27
Location: Los Pollos Hermanos
FS Record: Joint 6th TFF Wooden Spoon!
FISO Goals: Score: 145 Position: 40

Re: Chelsea

Post by forestfan » 31 Jan 2019, 19:08

Sarri seems to have done the boom-and-bust Chelsea manager act even more quickly than normal (they usually at least win the title in their first season...)

Sounds like some fans have already been calling for the Lampard/Terry dream team... or is it too soon for the concluding part of the Mourinho trilogy?

User avatar
Zimmerman
FISO Jedi Knight
Posts: 28234
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:42
Location: having a picnic at the Bear Mountain

Re: Chelsea

Post by Zimmerman » 31 Jan 2019, 19:08

How much of that is down to the Chelsea culture of being more powerful than their managers?

Could it work?
Is he allowed to get rid of the bad eggs (or to take back control of the dressing room)?

11 managers in 11 years and 3 months (since the end of Jose pt 1.

raoul
Grumpy Old Man
Posts: 1124
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:32
FS Record: got up to 3rd in TFF overall one Christmas about 15 years ago ... and won Football Fantastic (how I miss thee) one year. Apart from that, pants.

Re: Chelsea

Post by raoul » 31 Jan 2019, 19:48

A Chelsea fan colleague of mine is saying the players are forced to train on the morning of games, and that this perhaps explains why they fade in the 2nd half (and also why the players are not happy).

If that's the case, I might have to revise my plans for the Huddersfield game, as I can see Huddersfield parking the bus and then even nicking it...

User avatar
Vid
Head Moderator
Posts: 20068
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:33
Location: looking forward to a holiday!
FS Record: winning seems a distant memory
FISO Goals: Score: 15 Position: 61

Re: Chelsea

Post by Vid » 31 Jan 2019, 19:51

Zimmerman wrote:
31 Jan 2019, 19:08
How much of that is down to the Chelsea culture of being more powerful than their managers?

Could it work?
Is he allowed to get rid of the bad eggs (or to take back control of the dressing room)?

11 managers in 11 years and 3 months (since the end of Jose pt 1.
More powerful? Some of the managers that were sacked for not having a great second season had absolutely nothing to do with 'player power', just an owner that doesn't realise that retaining a title is a lot harder than winning it in the first place. Yes, we've had a few bad managers in there too that may well have 'lost the dressing room', but they'd probably have done that anywhere.

Scolari & AVB certainly out of their depth, Conte went nuts. Mourinho got himself sacked 2nd time around as he wanted the Man U job. All the rest were down to Abramovich and his advisors getting it wrong, nothing to do with the players at all.

What bad eggs are there causing problems for the manager? No really long standing senior players with any real clout in the way JT, Lamps, Cech & Ivanovich would have had.

Sarri has never won anything and he never will, another bad appointment that will see the better players leave and the next manager struggling to replace them.

Only when someone comes in that is willing to promote the likes of Hudson-Odi, Ampadu, Christensen, Loftus-Cheek before they are forced out as so many have been before them are things likely to settle, there'll never be another JT without a manager like Ranieri willing to give the youth a chance to establish themselves.

User avatar
forestfan
FISO Knight
Posts: 15515
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:27
Location: Los Pollos Hermanos
FS Record: Joint 6th TFF Wooden Spoon!
FISO Goals: Score: 145 Position: 40

Re: Chelsea

Post by forestfan » 31 Jan 2019, 20:28

They have been over-reliant on Hazard, a player with a reputation (fairly or otherwise) for downing tools on managers, for a few years now. And strikers have nearly always been a problem, in the Abramovich era only Drogba and Costa have really been unqualified successes, and they’ve signed dozens of them, many for big money.

It seems to be a squad without a real identity now. A lot of good-ish players, maybe only a couple of world class ones, both of whom have frequently been played out of position this season.

User avatar
blahblah
FISO Baron
Posts: 66934
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.
FISO Goals: Score: 28 Position: 52
Contact:

Re: Chelsea

Post by blahblah » 01 Feb 2019, 12:04

It is increasingly looking like square pegs in round holes, with main holes being closed by opponents. I saw an interesting piece on Brokks taking Jori out of the game and\or turning him into a weakness and I doubt Howe will be the last to do it. Does anyone really think that Pep would have played him instead of Ferdinho?

Sarriball is a kinda interesting idea. I found some Youtube stuff preseason and it didn't seem overly whacky, but hey ho it was a few cuts above POMO (https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 64077.html) and Pep among others had waxed lyrically about it so Rock On, so to type, but said as per David Essex 8-) :lol:

However, as Pep and Klopp had to learn Plan A or a Dogma doesn't really work in the Prem, without some tweaking, and if Sarri is struggling to get the players to dig his ball, then the only way is down from here? Jorgi: "I think playing this kind of football is a pleasure for everyone, you know?" 9.52 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiS5oYlgtts

Chelsea by there Modus Operandis need a manager to compromise with the Players at his disposal, and vice versa as per Conti and the move to 3 at the back. Would switching Kante back to holding Mid and pushing Jorgi forward a bit be enough?

7lb claimer
Grumpy Old Man
Posts: 1578
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:33

Re: Chelsea

Post by 7lb claimer » 01 Feb 2019, 18:03

Now Sarri says Hazard needs to improve. I was wondering when he'd get around to Hazard. Everyone else seems to need to or is in the process of doing so. Except Jorghino perhaps. Bournemouth targeted closing him down however and this will probably be a tactic for lots of other opponents. A month ago Sarri said something along the lines of Alonso being the best left back in the world. Now he's on the bench - maybe being given a rest although not sure. Emerson may well have completed his improvement process. I agree with FF about Hazard downing tools, although you can never pin him down because his B game is just about good enough to get by. Higuain was terrific five years ago but now is now,

User avatar
Zimmerman
FISO Jedi Knight
Posts: 28234
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:42
Location: having a picnic at the Bear Mountain

Re: Chelsea

Post by Zimmerman » 01 Feb 2019, 18:18

Vid - FF highlights Hazard being selective with his performances.

Whilst they may not have the big dominant characters of the past, if the culture for the last 12 years + years has been one of dressing room power (let’s face it, when the manager is little more than a supply teacher, the players aren’t daft... and they become accustomed). Also worth bearing in mind Terry has only been missing for 1.5 seasons.

BuckJones
Kevin and Perry
Posts: 42
Joined: 11 May 2017, 16:20

Re: Chelsea

Post by BuckJones » 01 Feb 2019, 18:38

RLC is being wasted...needs to be a regular starter.

User avatar
blahblah
FISO Baron
Posts: 66934
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.
FISO Goals: Score: 28 Position: 52
Contact:

Re: Chelsea

Post by blahblah » 01 Feb 2019, 18:42

Enjoy.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivIyDU0FgiU

Today's PC in full, has the youtube Button broken?
Last edited by blahblah on 01 Feb 2019, 18:51, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Vid
Head Moderator
Posts: 20068
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:33
Location: looking forward to a holiday!
FS Record: winning seems a distant memory
FISO Goals: Score: 15 Position: 61

Re: Chelsea

Post by Vid » 01 Feb 2019, 19:13

Zimmerman wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 18:18
Vid - FF highlights Hazard being selective with his performances.

Whilst they may not have the big dominant characters of the past, if the culture for the last 12 years + years has been one of dressing room power (let’s face it, when the manager is little more than a supply teacher, the players aren’t daft... and they become accustomed). Also worth bearing in mind Terry has only been missing for 1.5 seasons.
FF?

Selective in what way? He's constantly put in a position due to the slow build up play of having the entire opposition to try to dribble through to try to create an opening for himself or the couple of other players on the pitch capable of hitting the net. Even the most professional professional is going to get pissed off with it somewhere alone the line.

Again, I disagree that there is any such 'culture' over the past 15 years, not going to repeat what I've said previously (and also won't be doing it in our FB exchange), take it or leave it. Believe what you will.

User avatar
blahblah
FISO Baron
Posts: 66934
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.
FISO Goals: Score: 28 Position: 52
Contact:

Re: Chelsea

Post by blahblah » 01 Feb 2019, 19:17

forestfan :wink:

I stopped listening when he went on about the 3 attackers being too narrow, but with no Alonso there isn't much sensible support from that midfield 3, which must be a tad dispiriting?

buu1333
Grumpy Old Man
Posts: 2475
Joined: 16 Jul 2011, 18:51

Re: Chelsea

Post by buu1333 » 05 Feb 2019, 13:28

Just been looking up sarri ball basically pass in around defence and midfield to bring them out of position and then counter attack with one of the front 3 ? One of the front 3 runs between the lines

Trying to turn Chelsea in to Napoli also tried to play hazard just like mertens, they are both suppose to be a prolific winger not a striker.

It's looks boring is it ?

User avatar
Zimmerman
FISO Jedi Knight
Posts: 28234
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:42
Location: having a picnic at the Bear Mountain

Re: Chelsea

Post by Zimmerman » 05 Feb 2019, 13:50

Watch Chelsea... make your mind up.

We like to over philosophise about football.

Low block
Tika Taka
Gegenpressing
Sarriball
Route bloody one
Total football

In the old days we had
Possession football
Counter attacking football
Direct / route 1

In essence that’s still the case today.

There isn’t a huge amount of difference between Klopp, Sarri, Rodgers, Pep in terms of styles.
The only difference is the personnel.

buu1333
Grumpy Old Man
Posts: 2475
Joined: 16 Jul 2011, 18:51

Re: Chelsea

Post by buu1333 » 05 Feb 2019, 14:08

That what I wanted to say I first what do they play counter attack or possession. But looking it up it's obviously possession. Seeing the Napoli goals the random player who counter attacks and runs between the line doesn't receive the ball he just gives space to other players to "tiki taka"it into too net.

But what you don't see in the YouTube videos that alot of it will be boring I think

buu1333
Grumpy Old Man
Posts: 2475
Joined: 16 Jul 2011, 18:51

Re: Chelsea

Post by buu1333 » 05 Feb 2019, 14:26

Basic all we changed at man united is we now play counter attack and flexible, instead of possession and maintain formation

User avatar
blahblah
FISO Baron
Posts: 66934
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.
FISO Goals: Score: 28 Position: 52
Contact:

Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2018/19 - Ole Ole Ole Ole

Post by blahblah » 10 Feb 2019, 16:32

blahblah wrote:
10 Feb 2019, 11:32
Sarriball is impotent - I think it could get very ugly today;
Too early to gloat? 8-)

User avatar
forestfan
FISO Knight
Posts: 15515
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:27
Location: Los Pollos Hermanos
FS Record: Joint 6th TFF Wooden Spoon!
FISO Goals: Score: 145 Position: 40

Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2018/19 - Ole Ole Ole Ole

Post by forestfan » 10 Feb 2019, 16:51

Come on Chelsea, sack him and replace with Fat Frank to derail those pesky Sheep :wink:

User avatar
blahblah
FISO Baron
Posts: 66934
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.
FISO Goals: Score: 28 Position: 52
Contact:

Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2018/19 - Ole Ole Ole Ole

Post by blahblah » 10 Feb 2019, 16:55

Ah, good ole narrow-minded bigotry :lol:

It is crazy what he is doing though.

User avatar
blahblah
FISO Baron
Posts: 66934
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.
FISO Goals: Score: 28 Position: 52
Contact:

Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2018/19 - Ole Ole Ole Ole

Post by blahblah » 10 Feb 2019, 17:40

blahblah wrote:
10 Feb 2019, 16:32
blahblah wrote:
10 Feb 2019, 11:32
Sarriball is impotent - I think it could get very ugly today;
Too early to gloat? 8-)
6 now 8-)

You lot have a target :wink:

User avatar
forestfan
FISO Knight
Posts: 15515
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:27
Location: Los Pollos Hermanos
FS Record: Joint 6th TFF Wooden Spoon!
FISO Goals: Score: 145 Position: 40

Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2018/19 - Ole Ole Ole Ole

Post by forestfan » 10 Feb 2019, 18:00

blahblah wrote:
10 Feb 2019, 16:55
forestfan wrote:
10 Feb 2019, 16:51
Come on Chelsea, sack him and replace with Fat Frank to derail those pesky Sheep :wink:
Ah, good ole narrow-minded bigotry :lol:

It is crazy what he is doing though.
Hiddink is currently managing China U21’s... and there’s another bloke quite familiar with a certain part of west London who’s not doing anything at the moment...

User avatar
blahblah
FISO Baron
Posts: 66934
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.
FISO Goals: Score: 28 Position: 52
Contact:

Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2018/19 - Ole Ole Ole Ole

Post by blahblah » 10 Feb 2019, 18:02

Erm...

Hoddle? Gullit?

User avatar
forestfan
FISO Knight
Posts: 15515
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:27
Location: Los Pollos Hermanos
FS Record: Joint 6th TFF Wooden Spoon!
FISO Goals: Score: 145 Position: 40

Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2018/19 - Ole Ole Ole Ole

Post by forestfan » 10 Feb 2019, 18:05

AVB, unless he's having another crack at the Dakar Rally, or maybe the Indy 500 :wink:

User avatar
blahblah
FISO Baron
Posts: 66934
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.
FISO Goals: Score: 28 Position: 52
Contact:

Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2018/19 - Ole Ole Ole Ole

Post by blahblah » 10 Feb 2019, 18:11

Do any if their last whack of managers have a "proper" job?

User avatar
blahblah
FISO Baron
Posts: 66934
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.
FISO Goals: Score: 28 Position: 52
Contact:

Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2018/19 - Ole Ole Ole Ole

Post by blahblah » 10 Feb 2019, 18:24

Back on thread 4th looks straight forward?

View Latest: 1 Day View Your posts
Post Reply

Return to “Football Talk & Events”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest