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We’ll be stronger next time

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Zimmerman
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We’ll be stronger next time

Post by Zimmerman »

So how much better will we be at the next tournament?

1) how many of this squad will be picked in two years time?
2) how many of this first team will start the next tournament game?

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Zimmerman
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Re: We’ll be stronger next time

Post by Zimmerman »

1) 12 of the 23
2) 5

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Re: We’ll be stronger next time

Post by blahblah »

Assuming the Euro's: (Oh and Southgate is still in situ)

Pickford

Keane
Stones
Maguire

TAA\Trippier
?? (Rose, Bertrand if he can get away from Soton, but there aren't many top clubs after a LB?, Shaw, if he gets to play...)

?? (A proper DM)
?? (I wouldn't be surprised to see the Citeh kid Foden as a link players. RLC? I don't see Alli as having "it" in a linking\possession sense.

Sterling
Kane
?? (Pace, control and a finisher.... yes I know :lol: :lol: :lol: Lookman?)

All the oldies from the WC Squad will be gone ie Vardy, Cahill...

Rashford if he doesn't kick on, Henderson, but I expect Dier to still be in it as DM and CB cover, ditto Wal;ker re RB anc CB cover.

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Re: We’ll be stronger next time

Post by murf »

Hopefully Ox can stay fit and push on at Liverpool. Lallana also an option at Anfield, maybe Gomez by 2020.

I still don't think this team is that good and distinctly lacks quality. I just don't see them getting any better. Maybe Maguire with experience but not much more scope in that XI.

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Re: We’ll be stronger next time

Post by Zimmerman »

Two numbers would have sufficed :D

Bertrand is soon to be 29. I’m not sure he’s likely to be the go to man in two years time.

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Re: We’ll be stronger next time

Post by blahblah »

I couldn't think of any tasty young LB's :lol:

As if I know the squad and the RB slot could be a toss of a coin and\or better Set Piece delivery? :lol:

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Re: We’ll be stronger next time

Post by Zimmerman »

9 of the squad*
6 started the first game

* Pope and TAA may well have gone too if not for injuries.

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Re: We’ll be stronger next time

Post by blahblah »

I did quite well 😱😱😱😱😱

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Re: We’ll be stronger next time

Post by forestfan »

No mention of Rice (Irish back then…) or Phillips (a Championship player…) and obviously one or two of the youngsters not yet on the radar. But pretty close as far as predictions go.

Going back to how good this squad actually is, which I think was an off-topic discussion that emerged on the Man Utd thread. The ‘00s “golden generation” had more established top players, fair enough. But they were mostly very English style, straight down the middle type players. We lacked that bit of magic, that something different to change a game, when plan A didn’t work. If we’d had a Foden, Grealish, Sancho or Saka to bring off the bench then, it might have been a different story in one of those tournaments. They might not (yet) be consistent world-beaters, but they’re game-changers. We have plan B, C and D now, at least.

Of course, we had a couple of supposed world-class managers back then (with the best forgotten McClaren in between). They didn’t get the best out of them, whatever was on their CVs. We had the two extremes, the Baden-Baden WAG media circus in 2006 and Boot Camp Capello (“we’re boooored!”) in 2010. Seems the balance is so much better now, even if Southgate doesn’t have Champions League titles to his name.

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Re: We’ll be stronger next time

Post by bluenosey »

We still really don't have a stand out world beater who can turn a game. It was supposed to be Beckham back then, but he never really produced for England like Gazza, bar one game v Greece, I think. Sancho could be that player, maybe Foden. Let's see and fingers crossed.

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Re: We’ll be stronger next time

Post by forestfan »

bluenosey wrote: 05 Jul 2021, 22:16 We still really don't have a stand out world beater who can turn a game. It was supposed to be Beckham back then, but he never really produced for England like Gazza, bar one game v Greece, I think. Sancho could be that player, maybe Foden. Let's see and fingers crossed.
Well, Beckham was a very different kind of player to Gazza, he was about work-rate, crossing and set-pieces, he was never someone who was going to run at players and take them on, or beat opponents with pace and trickery. He was the best at what he did, rarely let England down post-98, but as I said, a very English type of player, as were Gerrard, Lampard etc. in their own ways.

Scholes was perhaps the one who had the quality on the ball that continental sides had, the likes of Zidane and Xavi rated him highly as an opponent I seem to remember. But, like Hoddle in the previous generation, England never quite knew how to use him, he ended up stuck out on the left and retiring prematurely from England duty.

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Re: We’ll be stronger next time

Post by bluenosey »

forestfan wrote: 05 Jul 2021, 22:37
bluenosey wrote: 05 Jul 2021, 22:16 We still really don't have a stand out world beater who can turn a game. It was supposed to be Beckham back then, but he never really produced for England like Gazza, bar one game v Greece, I think. Sancho could be that player, maybe Foden. Let's see and fingers crossed.
Well, Beckham was a very different kind of player to Gazza, he was about work-rate, crossing and set-pieces, he was never someone who was going to run at players and take them on, or beat opponents with pace and trickery. He was the best at what he did, rarely let England down post-98, but as I said, a very English type of player, as were Gerrard, Lampard etc. in their own ways.

Scholes was perhaps the one who had the quality on the ball that continental sides had, the likes of Zidane and Xavi rated him highly as an opponent I seem to remember. But, like Hoddle in the previous generation, England never quite knew how to use him, he ended up stuck out on the left and retiring prematurely from England duty.
Yeah, shame about Scholes. Had to make way in order to shoe horn in both Gerrard and Lampard. I recall him digging England out of a hole or two under Keegan. That MF should have been a belter but never quite came off. McManaman could have been brilliant on the left, but also never quite came off. A certain Mr Le Tissier never got a look in either.

If you think Hoddle wasn't used well - and I agree - go back to the 70s. Bowles, Marsh, Hudson, Worthington, George....so much talent, albeit wayward, rarely featured and we missed 2 world cups because of it. Saw an article on Stan Bowles the other day. Really sad to see him now, even though before my time :(

PS Re Beckham, I recall some bloody awful penalties - Turkey and worse still, France ?

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Re: We’ll be stronger next time

Post by buu1333 »

forestfan wrote: 05 Jul 2021, 22:37
bluenosey wrote: 05 Jul 2021, 22:16 We still really don't have a stand out world beater who can turn a game. It was supposed to be Beckham back then, but he never really produced for England like Gazza, bar one game v Greece, I think. Sancho could be that player, maybe Foden. Let's see and fingers crossed.
Well, Beckham was a very different kind of player to Gazza, he was about work-rate, crossing and set-pieces, he was never someone who was going to run at players and take them on, or beat opponents with pace and trickery. He was the best at what he did, rarely let England down post-98, but as I said, a very English type of player, as were Gerrard, Lampard etc. in their own ways.

Scholes was perhaps the one who had the quality on the ball that continental sides had, the likes of Zidane and Xavi rated him highly as an opponent I seem to remember. But, like Hoddle in the previous generation, England never quite knew how to use him, he ended up stuck out on the left and retiring prematurely from England duty.
The way I remember Gerrard, Lampard playing for England together in England teams was couldn't string 3 passing together.

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Re: We’ll be stronger next time

Post by bluenosey »

On paper it looked great but really should have been one of Gerrard or Lampard paired with Scholes.

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Re: We’ll be stronger next time

Post by buu1333 »

bluenosey wrote: 05 Jul 2021, 22:16 We still really don't have a stand out world beater who can turn a game. It was supposed to be Beckham back then, but he never really produced for England like Gazza, bar one game v Greece, I think. Sancho could be that player, maybe Foden. Let's see and fingers crossed.
I haven't seen much of Sancho but I am putting him at raheem sterling level when he played for Liverpool. raheem sterling is really good right now , I wanted him start for England from start of this tournament as he is more effective for example more likely to score. Pep manchester city made him a better player. And I wanted him dropped ages ago when every one loved him for his good pace and tricky (and also young :? ) but ineffective.

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Re: We’ll be stronger next time

Post by buu1333 »

bluenosey wrote: 10 Jul 2021, 10:30 On paper it looked great but really should have been one of Gerrard or Lampard paired with Scholes.
yes it so strange that it didn't work. I blame tactics/ playing style maybe too direct and other stuff.

also I liked joe cole he played better then scholes there

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