Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2018/19 - Ole Ole Ole Ole

[Darbyand]

There's speculation a load of players were ready to walk/run down contracts so they get a nice smiley face for 6 months, and a "proper" manager in the summer. I'd feel more reassured about the latter if it wasn't an Ed Woodward shitshow but we live in hope.

[liquidfootball2]

Jamie Carragher won't be getting many Christmas cards from Spurs fans

His article sets out his reasons why he thinks Mauricio Pochettino has to take the opportunity to become United's manager if offered the post at the end of the season.

(not withstanding any competing interests from Real Madrid)

I'll post it here in full as behind paywall....

Manchester United will always be bigger than Tottenham - Mauricio Pochettino has to quit Spurs for Old Trafford

If Mauricio Pochettino is offered the Manchester United job, he has to take it. That is a hard for Tottenham Hotspur supporters to accept. Sadly for them, it is inevitable that they are prey to a more powerful Premier League rival.

Hearing some arguments against Pochettino moving to Manchester United, I cannot help but think a reality check is needed. I do not write this to be disrespectful to Spurs. It goes without saying I am no United fan. I am obliged to assess as a neutral, trying to explain why – as the No 1 target – it will be tough for Pochettino to reject Old Trafford.

It does not matter how great Spurs’ new stadium is and how many supporters fill it. It does not even matter what they win this season or over the next few years. Spurs are not Manchester United. They will never be a big as Manchester United.

There is a footballing pyramid based on finance, history, status and global following. Manchester United will always be one of those at the top. Do not make the mistake of being distracted by what has happened at Old Trafford in the last five years. The United job will always be one of the world’s most attractive.

Since Sir Alex Ferguson stepped down, there has never been a better time to get it. It can only get better. They are 8th in the Premier League (actually they're 6th ). They lost in the Carabao Cup to Derby County. The fans' immediate priority is entertainment, with title and Champions League ambitions following once the next manager has built his team. Whoever goes there and gets it right will keep the job for as long they want. It is not like Real Madrid where you can win the Champions League and get sacked, never mind go after a few bad results.

Because the last three appointments failed, there is a perception United have become like others, sacking on a whim. Nonsense. In the case of David Moyes, Louis van Gaal and Jose Mourinho, the United board acted reluctantly, arguably letting incompatible coaches stay too long.

Their next will be the 4th permanent manager in five years, so some say it is a risk going to United. Since Pochettino was the 4th Tottenham manager in two years when he took over at White Hart Lane in 2014, that is not likely to faze him. Didn't Spurs sack Harry Redknapp and Andre Villas-Boas after not qualifying for the Champions League?

Unless you endure a calamitous start you will get at least three years to rebuild at United. Moyes took over in different circumstances, under pressure to deliver a seamless transition with a title-winning team. Van Gaal was expected to oversee swift improvement even though, like Moyes, the squad he inherited needed reshaping. When Mourinho was appointed it was solely about winning trophies - which he did - but at the expense of the style of play the supporters are accustomed to.

None were the right fit. Pochettino is.

Now the supporters, and the club, want the traditional way of playing back. As I have written before, I believe there is a core of United players capable of instant improvement. It is not just about buying the best. It is about working with, coaching and developing those already there and giving youth a chance.

Questions like, ‘Why would Pochettino leave Tottenham now?’ amount to a loyalty plea. Pochettino owes Spurs nothing. He has done an unbelievable job with a fraction of United’s budget. What has taken four-and-a-half years to build at Tottenham can be achieved sooner with the players he inherits, the same clever management he has demonstrated in North London and astute signings.

Only Pochettino’s devotion to his current squad can keep him at Tottenham, allied to a belief he is on the verge of winning the biggest honours. Does he truly think he as at a club prepared to go that extra mile to do so? Where everything is geared towards being the best in Europe? The signs have been there since the summer that his team’s capacities are being stretched to the absolute limit. He expressed frustration at being unable to strengthen, losing ground to a Liverpool team he has finished above in each season until now. This long-term perspective will be the chief consideration should - as we expect - United call.

It is naïve to believe Pochettino will be content working at a club where qualifying rather than winning the Champions League is the measure of success. He does not want the comfort of knowing he is safe from the sack if he finishes in the top four. He wants to win the Premier League and Champions League. He knows which clubs are best equipped to do it, not just on the occasional basis, but every season. He knows these chances do not come around often. If he does not take it this time and an alternative candidate succeeds, it may never come around again.

Spurs chairman Daniel Levy realises what is coming. He has long been regarded as one of the smartest operators in English football, so will have several calculations. Will he go to war to keep his manager? That rarely ends well. If a manager or player wants out you can retain them for a while but it happens eventually. Or is the priority maximising the financial benefits to Tottenham by letting him go?

I believe there should be transfer fees for managers as much as players. Manchester United paid £50 million for Fred, so why wouldn’t they pay £40m for one of the world’s most sought-after managers? What is more important?

My suspicion is an agreement will be reached that works for all parties this summer. If Pochettino departs at a considerable price, his successor might have more to spend than the current manager should he stay.

Despite suggesting they are about to embark on a thorough recruitment process, United are acting like they already have someone in mind - an individual they know cannot be recruited until the end of the season. The appointment of Ole Gunnar Solksjaer is the biggest hint. In Solksjaer, United have moved for an interim boss who is highly unlikely to get the job full-time. Just like as a player, he will be happy to return to the sidelines to make way for the first choice.

It seems like United did not want to make matters complicated by recruiting a more established European coach - and there are plenty available - who might come for six months and perform so well it would have been difficult not to extend his contract.

Would Laurent Blanc have accepted the same arrangement, with no prospect of staying even if he led a revival?

It is already football’s worst kept secret that United want Pochettino. It would be one of football’s biggest surprises if they do not get him.

Link attached but behind paywall...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... ochettino/

[Darbyand]

Sensible lad that Jamie Carragher, I've always said that...

[murf]

However poor a season they have, Liverpool and Man U will always be the biggest teams. Hence why Sky and the other channels always pick them (and get bigger figures). Man U v Huddersfield would probably get better ratings than Man City v Spurs.

[blahblah]

Shiny new comp here: viewtopic.php?f=32&t=129564

[blahblah]

re Poch, he would prefer RM, shirley?

Although there are growing Jose links to them (since I posted it here )

[forestfan]

The two biggest clubs in the world, the two biggest poisoned chalice jobs in the world?

He’s perhaps taken Spurs about as far as he can, other than landing one of the lesser trophies, but will be difficult to walk away as they move into the new stadium. If Real or United goes badly though, he’s going to be managing the Evertons and Newcastles of this world within a couple of years, or taking the money in the east.

[blahblah]

Are RM in that bad a mess?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pneI8959RY0 is quite funny re Jose to Fascist Madrid - I remember reading something earlier in the year about the top bod wanting him back. My guess is that Ramos would walk out in protest.

[forestfan]

Are RM in that bad a mess?

Well, they’re never satisfied for long. If you don’t win the title or CL, preferably both, you’re quickly on the way out. They’ve had something like 40 managers in 60 years despite all the trophies, and not too many of them have left with iconic status.

[blahblah]

Are RM in that bad a mess?

Well, they’re never satisfied for long. If you don’t win the title or CL, preferably both, you’re quickly on the way out. They’ve had something like 40 managers in 60 years despite all the trophies, and not too many of them have left with iconic status.

So 2 and a bit seasons is good going

[Tacalabala]

I actually think he will stay at Spurs. He would have been able to leave for Real before now, and didn't. He and Levy will have a very good idea of what is going to be possible financially once they move in, I think people are underestimating Spurs as a future force. I think it'll be either Zidane or Ole long term.

[liquidfootball2]

I actually think he will stay at Spurs. He would have been able to leave for Real before now, and didn't. He and Levy will have a very good idea of what is going to be possible financially once they move in, I think people are underestimating Spurs as a future force. I think it'll be either Zidane or Ole long term.

Yes it's so hard to be anything other than vague as to the future manager of Manchester United atm, there are just too many different variables involved. How well will this 'temporary' Solskjaer sojourn succeed, or not, as the case may be, and will Real Madrid be on the hunt too?

Possibly Jamie Carragher is correct about the potential and size of each club (Spurs and United) and therefore the realistic near to medium term future prospects of both. Spurs aren't a Manchester City with a huge oil state filled money chest behind them, the gap in wealth, standing, support and worldwide standing will still be there for the foreseeable future whatever happens this season and new stadium or not.

Personally I do think it's absolutely possible Zidane will come but in my opinion that's only likely if their real target Pochettino proves unobtainable for whatever reason, although I do think Pochettino will be leaving Spurs.

[Zimmerman]

People are banging on about Spurs’ stadium as if that’s some magic solution.

Yes, it will generate some more money... but it’s not the be all and end all. United will still be United. They are imeasurably bigger than Spurs.

What’s Arsenal’s stadium or West Ham’s done for them?

Would a player join them solely because of the stadium? Will Levy suddenly become really liberal with the cash? Will Spurs double their international fan base or get massive sponsorship deals?

In 16/17
Spurs £306m
United £581m (basically 90% more than Spurs).

[liquidfootball2]

People are banging on about Spurs’ stadium as if that’s some magic solution.

Yes, it will generate some more money... but it’s not the be all and end all. United will still be United. They are imeasurably bigger than Spurs.

What’s Arsenal’s stadium or West Ham’s done for them?

Would a player join them solely because of the stadium? Will Levy suddenly become really liberal with the cash? Will Spurs double their international fan base or get massive sponsorship deals?

I don't think most people here are banging on about it really although granted this is only a tiny forum and lots of others maybe.

Reading back there was a mention on a post that it may be difficult to walk away with the new stadium and another implying people could have underestimated Spurs future prospects.

Carragher certainly says it makes no difference....

"It does not matter how great Spurs’ new stadium is and how many supporters fill it"

I myself thought it not enough to change minds too.....

'(Difference) in standing, support and worldwide standing will still be there for the foreseeable future whatever happens this season and new stadium or not.'

I'm definitely of your opinion too as for me it just won't make enough of a difference.

[blahblah]

Pundits have been though.

He knew he wasn't 1st choice at RM and distanced himself from it, maybe knowing it was a bad time?

The best line re the new Stadium is that it would be new, as Wembley was ie a perceived risk re results? (Which was mentioned here, and yes I was one that went on about it, lol)

I'm with ff, above.

[Tacalabala]

Spurs are attempting to become the leading club in London, with the new stadium a part of that. Brexit not withstanding, asserting dominance over the long term in one of the biggest cities in the world has the possibility to elevate a club to the top echelons. I'm not saying it'll be overnight like City, but I think the stadium could solidify their position in the top 4 for sure.

[forestfan]

The stadium might not change their standing as a club, in the short term... but it is a moment in time that it would be hard to walk away from as a manager. A bit like walking away from a club after promotion, it’s something you’ve been building up to and then to not be part of it when it happens would be a tough decision to make.

[blahblah]

My point is more along the lines of his next move being important re not failing ie having to win stuff.... He can stay there and CL is fine though?

[forestfan]

It happens at every level of the game, managers eventually can’t resist the temptation to step up to a higher level. Often they fall flat on their faces and end up with a career to rebuild... job selection is perhaps the biggest factor in building a manager’s reputation. And once you’re on the downward slope, you have to take the impossible jobs and keep falling (see Crap Managers thread...)

[blahblah]

It happens at every level of the game, managers eventually can’t resist the temptation to step up to a higher level. Often they fall flat on their faces and end up with a career to rebuild... job selection is perhaps the biggest factor in building a manager’s reputation. And once you’re on the downward slope, you have to take the impossible jobs and keep falling (see Crap Managers thread...)

Yep, and where is Wobbie now? Buck? Jose?

[Zimmerman]

Spurs are attempting to become the leading club in London, with the new stadium a part of that. Brexit not withstanding, asserting dominance over the long term in one of the biggest cities in the world has the possibility to elevate a club to the top echelons. I'm not saying it'll be overnight like City, but I think the stadium could solidify their position in the top 4 for sure.

Although a look at Arsenal and Chelsea who both enjoyed big spells of being at the very top (one of which had a massive new stadium) haven’t managed to grow the brand quite like the biggest clubs.

[Tacalabala]

Spurs are attempting to become the leading club in London, with the new stadium a part of that. Brexit not withstanding, asserting dominance over the long term in one of the biggest cities in the world has the possibility to elevate a club to the top echelons. I'm not saying it'll be overnight like City, but I think the stadium could solidify their position in the top 4 for sure.

Although a look at Arsenal and Chelsea who both enjoyed big spells of being at the very top (one of which had a massive new stadium) haven’t managed to grow the brand quite like the biggest clubs.

You'd have thought Levy would've learnt from their mistakes.

Having said that, they haven't moved in yet.....

[forestfan]

Spurs are attempting to become the leading club in London, with the new stadium a part of that. Brexit not withstanding, asserting dominance over the long term in one of the biggest cities in the world has the possibility to elevate a club to the top echelons. I'm not saying it'll be overnight like City, but I think the stadium could solidify their position in the top 4 for sure.

Although a look at Arsenal and Chelsea who both enjoyed big spells of being at the very top (one of which had a massive new stadium) haven’t managed to grow the brand quite like the biggest clubs.

You'd have thought Levy would've learnt from their mistakes.

Having said that, they haven't moved in yet.....

Arsenal - sticking with a manager too long, Chelsea - changing too often and letting the players run the show?

[liquidfootball2]

Spurs are attempting to become the leading club in London, with the new stadium a part of that. Brexit not withstanding, asserting dominance over the long term in one of the biggest cities in the world has the possibility to elevate a club to the top echelons. I'm not saying it'll be overnight like City, but I think the stadium could solidify their position in the top 4 for sure.

Yes I suppose that's it is it in a nutshell, the difference Carragher refers to, Spurs may only be aiming for the top four or perhaps solidifying their position as an established top four club, there is no immediate prospect of them competing for the champions league or league title whereas perhaps United's backing and financial clout which bring far more immediate and definite possibilities for aiming far higher do, and with the right management structure (including Pochettino) guiding them, having the ammunition to hand and the potential for far more might be crucial.

I suppose it very much depends on how Pochettino views Spurs' likely progress and over what likely timescale, he might be too ambitious to wait for them, just how quickly can they jump a level or three?

However much it's tempting to ignore the tough financial climate and straitened times that are synonymous with the building of any new stadium in the capital, Spurs spent nothing at all in the window indicative perhaps of the coffers being all but empty and their finances stretched.

Spurs do atm impose a very rigid and tough wage structure and may soon find it quite hard to hold on to some of their better players and this even with a far more relaxed regimen and new stadium generated finance. They just can't and won't be able to afford to match the big league wages of their rivals in any near term or medium term future scenarios, their rivals won't stand still until they can, so although they may get nearer, the gap to bridge is still very large indeed.

If they do succeed in their very plausible and extremely possible aim of becoming London's top club it's very unlikely to be an unchallenged or unchanging situation, Arsenal and Chelsea won't disappear and such a position may be quite transient, especially considering Arsenal's wealth. They can however establish a good base camp from which to achieve far more, but it's just how quickly is that realistically possible,

My guess is Pochettino knew when it was time to leave Southampton to a club where he had greater potential and he may see the jump from Spurs to United in a similar vein.

Pochettino looks right in a way none of their previous attempts to follow Sir Alex did.

[Darbyand]

And now you're Gunnar believe us
We're Gunnar win 6th place.

[Tacalabala]

It's only Cardiff, but my goodness, what a change!!! It's like a weight has been lifted off their shoulders.

[blahblah]

Indeed, OGS dropped some heavy shit there - shame Pig wasn't benched to drive the point into his thick skull, but hopefully a few Riot Acts have been read.

[Zimmerman]

Was only Cardiff.... but they are terrible. I know their home form is reasonable, but they were shocking.

The way Cardiff managed to break and find spaces quite a few times would suggest there is still trouble ahead against better teams.

United 75% possession and 17 shots (Cardiff managed to get 9 shots off)

Watford managed 71% and 17 shots last time out for Cardiff (away).

Even Southampton managed 64% and 12 shots in Cardiff’s last home game.


United players were definitely playing with a bit more confidence and swagger though. Next three fixtures all winnable for United and with Chelsea dropping points, Liverpool playing arsenal next week and Spurs v United post fa cup... things could look a whole lot more promising by the end of Jan.

[blahblah]

Swagger is another good word for it.

Unaccountable was used pre-match as much to the Dressing Room as manager, with Dixon being Intersting despite his olde school drivel. Apparently Arsene left that stuff to the Dressing Room which explains their demise when there were no players dominating it?

[buu1333]

OGS did have bad defence at Cardiff also the assistant when at hull, we will see. More attacking today with more players and with flexible formation instead of maintain formation which we had under van Gaal and Jose mourinho.