Russia 2018 Chat

[blahblah]

Former referee Keith Hackett gives his verdict on those two extremely contentious first half goals

The VAR penalty - France's second

But no matter who makes the decision I am afraid to say the officials got this one badly wrong. To issue a sanction the referee must decide it was a “deliberate” handball, and there is no way that was the case here. Perisic’s hand is in a natural position and he had no time to react after the ball went past Blaise Matuidi. 

That is obvious when you watch the incident in real-time, but Pitana was shown numerous slow-motion replays. Seeing an incident in slow-motion removes any context and makes it look worse than it was. I believe that only full-speed clips should be shown during a VAR review, and if that had been the case I don’t think the penalty would have been awarded. Pitana is a good, strong referee but I felt sorry for him as he was tied in knots by the system designed to help him. 

The own goal - France's first

I also believe France’s opening goal should not have stood as it came from a free-kick awarded after a blatant act of simulation by Antoine Griezmann. I understand why Pitana was fooled but there must be a case for using VAR in circumstances such as these. The system is designed to prevent goals being awarded if there has been an infringement in the build-up and that was the case here.

Sadly, we were left with a situation where France were 2-1 ahead but neither goal should have counted. It was an unsatisfactory end to a tournament where VAR has worked far better than I feared it might. 

Exactly!

I'd toss that early (in comp) French pen where slo mo showed a slightest of touch......

[liquidfootball2]

Yes it's really regrettable that both those absolutely crucial first and second French goals shouldn't have been allowed it had a massive and probably decisive bearing on the outcome.

After 60 mins still 2-1 behind Croatia had to take chances and France have shown before just how clinical they can be at punishing opponents who give them too much space before this game. Those two goals created the situation and they took full advantage.

Dermot Gallagher the latest ref to say the penalty was 100% wrong.

''France penalty 100 per cent wrong''

http://www.skysports.com/share/11438236

[Striker]

Although the French penalty decision was decidedly dodgy, and the majority of neutral observers would not have given it, for Gallagher to say that it was 100% wrong is downright silly. That implies that there was zero case for a penalty, while there clearly was a case, irrespective of the strength of that case. He sounds like a diehard fan of the disadvantaged team or a politician rather than someone making an objective judgement.

[Zimmerman]

Just to be pedantic, if he feels that every single criteria is absent, then he’s justified in saying zero percent?

No intent
Hand in natural position
Hand down by his side
Close proximity so no time to react

[forestfan]

I think it’s overruling it with VAR that’s “100% wrong”, as it supposedly has to be a clear and obvious error to do so, and if it takes so long to decide then that clearly isn’t the case.

The Iran one in the group stage was worse, the Portuguese player was actually trying to get his arm out of the way... the ref would have ended up with a lot of egg on his face had Iran converted the chance they had for a late winner. And probably a lawsuit from Ronaldo’s sponsors! Actually, wouldn’t Portugal have been in the “easy” half of the draw had that not been given?

[blahblah]

Yep, they would have been Spain.

[liquidfootball2]

I think it’s overruling it with VAR that’s “100% wrong”, as it supposedly has to be a clear and obvious error to do so, and if it takes so long to decide then that clearly isn’t the case.

This for me has shown to be where VAR could be improved, showing handballs to the ref to review again in slow motion can give an impression of intent where the time to react to do so just isn't there. For me there were several instances of handball wrongly called for a second review.

It makes me wonder whether the VAR officials were following a different procedure of highlighting every handball the ref didnt see for him to have a second look at on the pitch and decide for himself, the referee consequently thinking he may have made an error and therefore being under huge pressure to give the penalty. Slow motion in some cases can give an impression of intent where there could not possibly be any.

I don't think the ref without that pressure could possibly have changed his mind in the France v Croatia one, it seemed the last slow motion after he went back to review a final last time persuaded him and possibly made his decision which in my view was completely incorrect.- slow motion really doesn't give any indication of speed and time to react.

The var officials have on numerous occasions given handballs to view with VAR, only the Dutch ref, imo the best ref in this world cup stuck to his original decision

Not all the handballs given to review were pens, only one where a defender purposely stuck his hand back up to block a ball after the ball had passed over his head and his hand had been on its way down, should have been given imo.

As Forest posted, Portugal's Cedric Soares against Iran - possibly the worst decision in the whole world cup - but also Denmark's Yussuf Poulsen against Australia were among the other players to suffer at the fate of referees who were punishing ball-to-hand incidents.

But the consistency does not explain the decision-making. The rules do not state that the ball hitting an arm in the box constitutes an offence. In fact, the rules' wording suggests that the penalties were harshly awarded

Referees were perhaps enforcing a far harsher version of the rules that does not currently exist, namely that any handball is a penalty regardless of intent.

Certainly the usage of VAR in handball incidents needs a complete overhaul as at the moment it seems the laws are just not being followed.


The law as it stands...

Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with the hand or arm.

The following must be considered:

the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand)

the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball)

the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an offence

touching the ball with an object held in the hand (clothing, shinguard, etc.) is an offence

hitting the ball with a thrown object (boot, shinguard, etc.) is an offence

[Zimmerman]

There were three or four from memory that were given as a result of VAR that were no way penalties.

There is definitely some psychology at play in the fact he is being asked to go and look at it.

Your natural instinct is, if 4 guys in a room with replays are telling me to look at it, I must have dropped a bollock.

we of course don’t know the dialogue exchange whilst watching it. It’s supposed to be entirely the referees decision - but you can always see them discussing things... so how much influence do the VAR guys have (whether directly or indirectly)?

I think the disappointing thing for me with VAR is that they didn’t attempt to use it to punish diving. One thing not spotting decisions (like Griezmann in the final) but when there were dives, they didn’t get pulled up for it.

On a tangent (now I’m on a role).... what was with the refs basically going out of their way to warn players on corners. Seems like every corner was preceded with a dramatic ‘warning’. Just leave them to it and give the appropriate decision of one or the other fouls.

[blahblah]

Your natural instinct is, if 4 guys in a room with replays are telling me to look at it, I must have dropped a bollock.

I think the disappointing thing for me with VAR is that they didn’t attempt to use it to punish diving. One thing not spotting decisions (like Griezmann in the final) but when there were dives, they didn’t get pulled up for it.

On a tangent (now I’m on a role).... what was with the refs basically going out of their way to warn players on corners. Seems like every corner was preceded with a dramatic ‘warning’. Just leave them to it and give the appropriate decision of one or the other fouls.

Most definitely.

YES!!!"!

Camera time