England v Uruguay

[blahblah]

Swap Barkley and the Ox there.

[murf]

For me..

Hart
Johnson, Smalling, Cahill, Shaw
Barkley, Gerrard
AOC, Rooney, Lallana
Sturridge


Gung-Ho

That line up is good for jpk's sex life but not much else.

[tedbull]

If it ends up being a dead rubber then by all means give some younger fringe players a run, such as Shaw, Barkley, Jones, Lallana. Players who you might think could genuinely improve England in 4 years time. You've got to keep a little bit of experience alongside them though.

Not sure what we'd learn about Smalling. We'd be pretty confident he won't be a key player in a major tournament? Likewise Lambert, he was a solid selection as backup but there's no great benefit in giving him tournament experience.

[Tacalabala]

No way will Hodgson drop his captain

If Italy don't win tonight we can play whoever we want - it doesn't matter. May as well rest Gerrard and reward others for wasting their summer.

If we have a chance of qualifying then we have to play the best team and that still includes Gerrard (as nobody better at DM). Gerrard would provide the experience around which to hang the youngsters. Part of the problem has been the lack of experience/maturity/organisation so we can't make it worse.

Have you actually watched the last two games? Or, for that matter, Liverpool's last handful of league games?

Gimenez was fantastic for Uruguay. He is 19yo and has played precisely two games this season for Atletico Madrid. So much for experience.

If it ends up being a dead rubber then by all means give some younger fringe players a run, such as Shaw, Barkley, Jones, Lallana. Players who you might think could genuinely improve England in 4 years time. You've got to keep a little bit of experience alongside them though.

Not sure what we'd learn about Smalling. We'd be pretty confident he won't be a key player in a major tournament? Likewise Lambert, he was a solid selection as backup but there's no great benefit in giving him tournament experience.

Yeah, Smalling is probably out of OT once LVG works out how limited he is, and Lambert can say he has played at a WC, and really for him this is the best moment of his career (strangely).

[murf]

Gerrard isn't great at DM but I will just ask who is better......


(not Milner IMO and anybody else would be scary)

[tedbull]

Is anyone just a midfielder nowadays?

[thebillfella]

Henderson and Wilshere as a combo would leave the back four exposed?

Any more so than Gerrard and Henderson on current form?

If Ox was fit I'd have him in there; alas...

[Tacalabala]

Gerrard isn't great at DM but I will just ask who is better......


(not Milner IMO and anybody else would be scary)

Milner is worthy of a run-out, you have to admit that Gerrard has been half the player he should be and arguably wasteful. Milner will do exactly what Roy asks him to do, which is what you want from a DM, and Milner can actually defend as well.

[TheTon]

Gerrard isn't great at DM but I will just ask who is better......


(not Milner IMO and anybody else would be scary)

Milner is worthy of a run-out, you have to admit that Gerrard has been half the player he should be and arguably wasteful. Milner will do exactly what Roy asks him to do, which is what you want from a DM, and Milner can actually defend as well.

Milner can't defend. He can run around like a headless chicken, but defend? No, fraid not. He's also not a central midfielder. He did ok for Villa there but didn't make the transition as smoothly as Barry did. He hasn't played central once since being at City, completely pointless to keep playing players out of their preferred positions in my opinion.

[blahblah]

Henderson and Wilshere as a combo would leave the back four exposed?

Any more so than Gerrard and Henderson on current form?

If Ox was fit I'd have him in there; alas...

That is why I would go Jones and\or Milner, who isn't that bad...

If fit I would have Sterling, Barkley and Ox behind the forward.

[murf]

Milner is 'worthy of a run out' true but this is potentially a must-win, knockout, 'like a cup final', qualification decider so we can't use that logic. Need to put out our best team, however distinctly average that is.

England don't have a true, decent, specialist DM - at least Gerrard has played there recently. Barry would have been my second choice but he is unavailable as he is playing in goal for the Ivory Coast.

[moonlightdribbler]

Henderson and Wilshere as a combo would leave the back four exposed?

That's just how Roy likes it!

[thebillfella]

Gerrard isn't great at DM but I will just ask who is better......

(not Milner IMO and anybody else would be scary)

That was why I would have taken Carrick over Lampard personally. The fact is Gerrard's best days have gone, but Roy won't drop him here.

Of the guys that are there, I agree we don't really have anyone better to do that role unless you ask Henderson (who let's face it is only there as a water carrier anyway), Jones (which means persevering with Glenn Johnson at RB ) or of course play Rooney out of position (not really before anyone picks this up).

As it stands with the squad that is there, maybe we have to sacrifice Lallana to get a third midfielder in their and play a more measured / less entertaining christmas tree formation with the full backs giving width and the hod carrier dropping into the defence to cover (as De Rossi does for Italy)?

[moonlightdribbler]

I enjoyed the BBC just now, showing what happened 4 years ago against Germany, complete with a similar route one ball for one of the goals. The defence featured Terry & co.

The rewriting of history is amazing sometimes. If people think the inclusion of players like Terry and Cole would have saved the day they need their heads testing.

Terry's selection was never a realistic option, but his Euros 2012 performance and especially the 120 mins against Italy, his club partnership with Cahill and defensive organisational skills would have given us a better option.

Cole is still our best defender at defending and may have had more authority in sorting out the two on ones that occurred against Italy as well as closing down crosses.

I'm not saying it would have saved us or better teams than Italy wouldn't have exposed us but we would have been defensively stronger.

Yeah, but the like of Terry, Ferdinand and Cole have all played their part in plenty of footballing atrocities with their national team. Yet people talk about them, all teary-eyed, like they'd be our 3 knights in shining armour. BOLLOCKS.

[Tacalabala]

I enjoyed the BBC just now, showing what happened 4 years ago against Germany, complete with a similar route one ball for one of the goals. The defence featured Terry & co.

The rewriting of history is amazing sometimes. If people think the inclusion of players like Terry and Cole would have saved the day they need their heads testing.

Terry's selection was never a realistic option, but his Euros 2012 performance and especially the 120 mins against Italy, his club partnership with Cahill and defensive organisational skills would have given us a better option.

Cole is still our best defender at defending and may have had more authority in sorting out the two on ones that occurred against Italy as well as closing down crosses.

I'm not saying it would have saved us or better teams than Italy wouldn't have exposed us but we would have been defensively stronger.

Yeah, but the like of Terry, Ferdinand and Cole have all played their part in plenty of footballing atrocities with their national team. Yet people talk about them, all teary-eyed, like they'd be our 3 knights in shining armour. BOLLOCKS.

Not a fan then Could you imagine if Roy had called up Terry to the squad, just imagine it!

[tedbull]

Here's the problem. There's another thread wondering why England don't have many realistic captaincy options.

Maybe it's because England held onto a failed generation for so long and basically ends up with a mix of young players with very little footballing experience, and players in their late 20s with very little international experience.

The answer certainly isn't to exacerbate that situation by holding another generation of players back. Some of these captaincy candidates could have been 50 cap players with two world cups under their belts.

[moonlightdribbler]

Maybe it's because England held onto a failed generation for so long and basically ends up with a mix of young players with very little footballing experience, and players in their late 20s with very little international experience.

I've had this thought about Baines in the past. A player of his massive ability, and yet he's trying to adapt to International football as he closes in on his thirties. Bizarre. It can't have helped his confidence to be overlooked for so many years, but i also think it's a bit harder for an older player to take the flak and and deal with the pressure than say a kid with no fear like Barkley.

[Blaze]

Hart

Gibbs
Cahill
Jagielka
Jenkinson

Sterling
Barkley
Wilshere
Chamberlain

Walcott
Sturridge

Bring on the Euros!

[bluenosey]

Again, a spectacular let down

After the first ten minutes, we did not play at the same tempo as the Italy game

Bullet pointed then :-

Gerrard poor. Time to say goodbye. Two more gaffes.
Rooney was reasonable. Some heavy tackles went in on him, which were unpunished.
Suarez world class. Fair play. The guy oozes quality.
Sturridge resorted to diving. His worst game, apart from some great skill in the build up to goal.
Johnson & Baines - Not great in first half but much better after the break.
Cahill & Jags - Fair. Couldn't blame either for Gerrard's gaffe for the second goal but couldn't handle the toothy one.
Lallana should have featured more. Same for Barkley.

One man turned Uruguay around. He was world class. We ain't got anyone in the same league.

Still, this was better than the abysmal performances of 2010 and a bit better than the distinctly average 2006 efforts. We had a go at least, even if our good spells were patchy. Stick with Roy and the kids. Forget the old guard. Ashley Cole ? Do me a favour. Stevie G should now be laid to rest. Rooney just a squad player from now on.

It's just Gerrard's blunder....why.....aaaargh Always bleeding England.

Why always us

Still, I'm England til I die.

[foxinthebox2001]

All those England knockers, can you honestly say in the 10 minutes before Suarez scored the winner that Uruguay looked the team most likely to get the 3rd goal?
I certainly didn't think so.

[tedbull]

Maybe it's because England held onto a failed generation for so long and basically ends up with a mix of young players with very little footballing experience, and players in their late 20s with very little international experience.

I've had this thought about Baines in the past. A player of his massive ability, and yet he's trying to adapt to International football as he closes in on his thirties. Bizarre. It can't have helped his confidence to be overlooked for so many years, but i also think it's a bit harder for an older player to take the flak and and deal with the pressure than say a kid with no fear like Barkley.

Very much agree. What value did, say 25 of Ashley Cole's last 50 caps add? (Let's ignore Stephen Warnock being selected for a World Cup - that was just an awful decision that looks even worse with hindsight).

Say the same for most of that generation. Did they or their successors benefit from being so relied upon in their thirties?

Time to dispense with the notion of a golden generation for England. It's an established football nation. It's a conveyor belt; focus on having the players in prime position when they're in their prime. Only the very, very best should be retained into their 30s, and even then you should be succession planning.

[bluenosey]

Maybe it's because England held onto a failed generation for so long and basically ends up with a mix of young players with very little footballing experience, and players in their late 20s with very little international experience.

I've had this thought about Baines in the past. A player of his massive ability, and yet he's trying to adapt to International football as he closes in on his thirties. Bizarre. It can't have helped his confidence to be overlooked for so many years, but i also think it's a bit harder for an older player to take the flak and and deal with the pressure than say a kid with no fear like Barkley.

Very much agree. What value did, say 25 of Ashley Cole's last 50 caps add? (Let's ignore Stephen Warnock being selected for a World Cup - that was just an awful decision that looks even worse with hindsight).

Say the same for most of that generation. Did they or their successors benefit from being so relied upon in their thirties?

Time to dispense with the notion of a golden generation for England. It's an established football nation. It's a conveyor belt; focus on having the players in prime position when they're in their prime. Only the very, very best should be retained into their 30s, and even then you should be succession planning.

2002 - QFs - Did OK to be fair. Lost 2-1 to Brazil, Pride intact
2006 - QF's - Pretty dire. Squeezed past Trinidad in group stage and beat Ecuador in last 16
2010 - Flaming awful

The golden generation were anything but. The team of 2002 was OK but floundered thereafter. Too reliant on Beckham who usually contributed the odd scuffed set piece or missed pen but nowt else. Sadly undone by Owen's injuries. Now he could finish. Haven't had a a real goalscorer since Whether Sturridge can step up remains to be seen.

[gazwood]

All those England knockers, can you honestly say in the 10 minutes before Suarez scored the winner that Uruguay looked the team most likely to get the 3rd goal?
I certainly didn't think so.

Agreed. Posted it earlier, will again. I thought we played quite well.

[murf]

All those England knockers, can you honestly say in the 10 minutes before Suarez scored the winner that Uruguay looked the team most likely to get the 3rd goal?
I certainly didn't think so.

Agreed. Posted it earlier, will again. I thought we played quite well.

'Quite well' is stretching it.

Overall we were OK against a weak Uruguay team. At 1-1 I thought it could be a fair result and we were the better team at that moment as you say. With hindsight can say any England player had a good game individually? Henderson and Rooney were OK. Johnson attacked quite well. Sturridge got involved a bit. Then there was, umm, err.......

[gazwood]

For 75 minutes of that match we were the better team and that's equates to quite well for me. Not mentioning the change to the game the second yellow Godin should've received.

Anyway;

Italy 1-0 Costa Rica
Italy 1-0 Uruguay
England 2-0 Costa Rica

Simples

[blahblah]

All those England knockers, can you honestly say in the 10 minutes before Suarez scored the winner that Uruguay looked the team most likely to get the 3rd goal?
I certainly didn't think so.

Exactly, but then we had the player that handed Citeh the title playing DM

[TheTon]

For 75 minutes of that match we were the better team and that's equates to quite well for me. Not mentioning the change to the game the second yellow Godin should've received.

Anyway;

Italy 1-0 Costa Rica
Italy 1-0 Uruguay
England 2-0 Costa Rica

Simples

Judging by the way Costa Rica are playing against Italy, England will be fortunate to not end up with 0 points!

[blahblah]

Or being pushed wide?

A leftfied XI to start vs CR

Hart

Johnson
Cahill
Jag
Shaw

Jones or Milner and to sit properly ie no Gerrardesque raids and hopeful long shots or glory passes
Milner or Wilshere to get the ball from the above 5 and link to those below.

Lallana
Barkley
Sterling these three interchanging AND helping out defensively.

Lambert - although bucking the youth trend, he hasn't played that many seasons for his age and could have a few more in him yet?

Sturridge and Rooney would be there if Italy do help us out, but with Costa Rica already written off by all I would not be surprised to see them avoid defeat tonight......

From this morning.....

[em9999]

Costa rica best team in the group

huge well done to them

[forestfan]

Costa rica best team in the group

huge well done to them

Yeah, and with Ivory Coast or Greece next they've got every chance of going last eight or beyond.

Anyway, Mario, never mind a kiss from the Queen, if you have the nerve to show your face over here again I think you should be thrown in the Tower of London after that showing! Wenger surely realises Campbell is a better option now... hope Uruguay send them packing, if not then surely Colombia will on that performance.