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Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2016/17 - the Mourinho era

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2016/17 - the Mourinho era

Post by thebillfella »

Yeh, I hate seeing it like this and I feel we have just turned into another City / Chelsea / PSG in the making adopting a scattergun percentages spending approach but unfortunately that's just the modern game / market now and you either play along or get left behind.

I think to be fair to Jose that his spending was more focussed on improving quality in the starting XI than the previous few seasons (and you have to say that Ibra, Pogba, Miki and Bailly ticked these boxes albeit with mixed performances through their first year), and at the same time he has kept patience with Rashford and Lingard to allow them to develop rather than flounder as some expected.

Despite indifferent form and being without Champions League football this season, it seems yet again that projected revenue has increased beyond forecasted and on course for another record profit approaching £200m :shock:

The money being made in the game amongst the elite now is frightening, I guess the latest results will mean more of the same spending in the next transfer window, possibly with more clearing out of those that no longer (or never have) cut the mustard to leave a little headroom for the likes of Rashford / Lingard / Fosu-Mensah / Tuanzebe / McTominay / Perreira etc.

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2016/17 - the Mourinho era

Post by thebillfella »

murf wrote:
thebillfella wrote:Playing catchup for the last 5 years of underspending under Fergie, where I seem to recall we were something like 8th in the same table, spending less net than the likes of Sunderland and Aston Villa. :shock:
Only really catch up with Citeh and Chelsea. Should be way ahead of Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs.....
Doesn't always work like that though does it - football isn't a simple formulaic game. And are City and Chelsea "way ahead" of Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs...?

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2016/17 - the Mourinho era

Post by hancockjr »

thebillfella wrote:
murf wrote:
thebillfella wrote:Playing catchup for the last 5 years of underspending under Fergie, where I seem to recall we were something like 8th in the same table, spending less net than the likes of Sunderland and Aston Villa. :shock:
Only really catch up with Citeh and Chelsea. Should be way ahead of Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs.....
Doesn't always work like that though does it - football isn't a simple formulaic game. And are City and Chelsea "way ahead" of Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs...?
No but they should be, as consistent with Murf's statement.

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2016/17 - the Mourinho era

Post by thebillfella »

So by that rationale they shouldn't have been way ahead when they were spending far less than all of the above (bar Arsenal of course!) but were still ahead? It just isn't that simple, consistent with my statement :wink:

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2016/17 - the Mourinho era

Post by The Real Slim Shady »

James being heavily linked..

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2016/17 - the Mourinho era

Post by thebillfella »

Don't get it myself - in direct competition with Mkhitaryan and Mata (assuming Rooney is on his way). I suppose money is no object, but surely there are other positions that are more urgent to address? Does send a signal of intent I suppose...

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2016/17 - the Mourinho era

Post by murf »

The Real Slim Shady wrote:James being heavily linked..
I thought they were Leeds fans.....

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2016/17 - the Mourinho era

Post by hancockjr »

thebillfella wrote:So by that rationale they shouldn't have been way ahead when they were spending far less than all of the above (bar Arsenal of course!) but were still ahead? It just isn't that simple, consistent with my statement :wink:
No they shouldn't - they did well. Now they're doing badly. Seems quite simple to me. And nice, not just that they are doing badly but also as we don't have to hear about the "type of club" Man U are any more, i.e. One that will always play vibrant attacking football and always stand by their manager as they are "different to others". They are just like any other club, they don't sack good managers, but do sack bad ones, and they will play dull football and the fans will accept it if they think there's more chance of success with it.

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2016/17 - the Mourinho era

Post by thebillfella »

But as you see from my comments above I'm not accepting the style of football; just being patient rather than calling for his sacking...

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2016/17 - the Mourinho era

Post by Subsonic »

Manchesixter united....Spending 150m to finish 6th. Couldn't help it. Fnarr Fnarr.

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2016/17 - the Mourinho era

Post by Maldini »

I'd have probably waited a week or so before gloating like a child. United beat Ajax and Arsenal pip you for fourth and you'll look a right lemon.

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2016/17 - the Mourinho era

Post by thebillfella »

Too late for that anyway!

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2016/17 - the Mourinho era

Post by thebillfella »

Subsonic wrote:Manchesixter united....Spending 150m to finish 6th. Couldn't help it. Fnarr Fnarr.
Utd: 2 trophies (3 if you count the Community Shield) and direct qualification into group stages of the Champions League
Liv: No trophies and only reaching the pre-group stage qualifies for the Champions League

Isn't karma a bitch :D :wink:

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2016/17 - the Mourinho era

Post by Tacalabala »

thebillfella wrote:
Subsonic wrote:Manchesixter united....Spending 150m to finish 6th. Couldn't help it. Fnarr Fnarr.
Utd: 2 trophies (3 if you count the Community Shield) and direct qualification into group stages of the Champions League
Liv: No trophies and only reaching the pre-group stage qualifies for the Champions League

Isn't karma a bitch :D :wink:
Manchester United, still achieving your dreams...

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2016/17 - the Mourinho era

Post by thebillfella »

Tacalabala wrote:
thebillfella wrote:
Subsonic wrote:Manchesixter united....Spending 150m to finish 6th. Couldn't help it. Fnarr Fnarr.
Utd: 2 trophies (3 if you count the Community Shield) and direct qualification into group stages of the Champions League
Liv: No trophies and only reaching the pre-group stage qualifies for the Champions League

Isn't karma a bitch :D :wink:
Manchester United, still achieving your dreams...
Nope, just flipping the banter back on someone who isn't shy to dish it out :D

Another nice fact for the day - ManUtd has more players on crutches tonight than Liverpool has won trophies in the last ten years!!! :lol:

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2016/17 - the Mourinho era

Post by Subsonic »

Reluctant congratulations to Man Ure. Finally won the European Worthless Cup. How the mighty fall.

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2016/17 - the Mourinho era

Post by Darbyand »

I can remember Liverpool's joy at winning it in 2001 and how gutted they were after the final last year. Fingers crossed for a tough August qualifier to get their season off to a flier....

I might resurrect the United summer spending sweepstake in the next few days. Any takers?

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2016/17 - the Mourinho era

Post by Zimmerman »

Oh yeh... the best UEFA cup final ever in 2001. Remember it well.

Those were the days when it was still a prestigious trophy.


Credit to United, they won last night.

They have won two trophys and qualified for the CL so that's a pretty successful season by anyone's standards. Most teams would have settled for that.

That said, is anyone in the PL quaking thinking, "oh no, they're back"? Doubt it. Doubt many united fans will even be that ecstatic with what they have seen in the last 12 months (which sounds odd given their successful season)! But trophys are trophys and they have the platform to kick on (sadly).

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Re: RE: Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2016/17 - the Mourinho era

Post by thebillfella »

Subsonic wrote:Reluctant congratulations to Man Ure. Finally won the European Worthless Cup. How the mighty fall.
And there we have it.

Good luck with the GCSEs Image

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Re: RE: Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2016/17 - the Mourinho era

Post by thebillfella »

Zimmerman wrote:
They have won two trophys and qualified for the CL so that's a pretty successful season by anyone's standards. Most teams would have settled for that.

That said, is anyone in the PL quaking thinking, "oh no, they're back"? Doubt it. Doubt many united fans will even be that ecstatic with what they have seen in the last 12 months (which sounds odd given their successful season)! But trophys are trophys and they have the platform to kick on (sadly).
Don't agree Zim (and not just that the UEFA Cup was prestigious in 2001 - it hasn't been prestigious since the inception of the Champions league!).

It's made the season acceptable for Utd at best but not a successful one. Success lies for the big teams in winning the prem or champions league.

Chelsea is the only team that can claim to have had a successful season.

I would say only Spurs is the other team that can claim to have had an acceptable season having been the only one to give Chelsea a run for their money. For every other big 6 team the season has been unacceptable given their income and spending power.

What the win does do is release any potential blockers to top target signings by catapulting us back into the Champions league - whilst the win doesn't mean we are close to being back it significantly boosts confidence that we can improve further again over the summer and be a lot more likely to be challenging at the top than this year.

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2016/17 - the Mourinho era

Post by Darbyand »

It's classic Mourinho. Plonk the trophies on the cabinet and challenge the club to get him better players. I think he'll find Woodward more pliant than some previous bosses. Never could understand Chelsea wanting to put non-entities like Grant or that Michael Emanelo(?) in over his head to oversee transfers ....or Abramovich himself foisting a spent Schevchenko on JM. For all his faults he's good at identifying squad weaknesses and the players to fix them. Gives some hope we can avoid the usual Mourinho three year crash and burn....Woodward will indulge him to the ends of the earth.

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2016/17 - the Mourinho era

Post by thebillfella »

Darbyand wrote:I can remember Liverpool's joy at winning it in 2001 and how gutted they were after the final last year. Fingers crossed for a tough August qualifier to get their season off to a flier....

I might resurrect the United summer spending sweepstake in the next few days. Any takers?
I'll give it a go.

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2016/17 - the Mourinho era

Post by Zimmerman »

Win PL
Win CL
qualify for CL
Win Europa
Win FA Cup
Win League Cup

Presumably the six targets for the top teams?

Debatable whether number 3 should be ranked as the top priority? Not as as prestigious as 1 and 2... but assuming avoiding relegation isn't a factor, then it's the minimum requirement for the top clubs?

Agree that it's been acceptable for United rather than a resounding success.

I'd argue that Liverpool can view the season with success.

We've averaged 7th place finishes for six of the last seven seasons and had a negative net spend this year too. That's a pretty remarkable achievement in reality, jumping from 7th to top 4 with negative outlay.

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2016/17 - the Mourinho era

Post by forestfan »

Qualifying for the CL is "avoiding relegation" for the big clubs. But obviously numbers 1, 2 and 4 guarantee number 3 in themselves, so 3 on its own (i.e. finishing second, third or fourth) is just the fall-back...

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2016/17 - the Mourinho era

Post by GreekGeekFromGweek »

Zimmerman wrote:Agree that it's been acceptable for United rather than a resounding success. I'd argue that Liverpool can view the season with success.
:shock:

That's crazy.

No way can you count 2 trophies and CL group stage qualification as inferior to 0 trophies and CL qualifying round qualification. They might not even make the CL proper!

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2016/17 - the Mourinho era

Post by thebillfella »

Have to agree; surely trophies come first and then places? Nobody remembers who finished second never mind third. Ask Arsenal fans how proud they are of their 4th place cup record?

Order is (and that excludes the Super Cup, Intercontinental Cup or World Club Cup say which all come into play as well):

Win PL
Win CL
Win Europa
Win FA Cup
Win League Cup
qualify for CL

If you need convincing further, I'll leave it to the words of your beloved Bill Shankly to summarise:

"If you are first you are first. If you are second you are nothing."

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2016/17 - the Mourinho era

Post by murf »

That is how it should be and was in our day.

Club owners and even managers and players think differently. Even most ageing fans would put CL qualification above the League Cup.

It is only a successful season for Liverpool based on what has come before in recent years - and still only a modest success at that. No glory but quiet satisfaction.

A successful season on paper for Utd but a loss to Ajax or in an earlier round and it would have been a very poor season.

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2016/17 - the Mourinho era

Post by Zimmerman »

GreekGeekFromGweek wrote:
Zimmerman wrote:Agree that it's been acceptable for United rather than a resounding success. I'd argue that Liverpool can view the season with success.
:shock:

That's crazy.

No way can you count 2 trophies and CL group stage qualification as inferior to 0 trophies and CL qualifying round qualification. They might not even make the CL proper!
That's out of context; earlier id said united had had some success. Bill made the point it was only acceptable (which I conceded).

I then made a 'case' for Liverpool to be be happy with their season (for the reasons given).

It's all relative. Liverpools was a 'success' in terms of them achieving something they've managed once in 7 years.

Would anyone disagree Bournemouth could consider they've had a successful season? Top 10, no relegation threat etc. It's not to say they've had a better season than united though.

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2016/17 - the Mourinho era

Post by Zimmerman »

thebillfella wrote:Have to agree; surely trophies come first and then places? Nobody remembers who finished second never mind third. Ask Arsenal fans how proud they are of their 4th place cup record?

Order is (and that excludes the Super Cup, Intercontinental Cup or World Club Cup say which all come into play as well):

Win PL
Win CL
Win Europa
Win FA Cup
Win League Cup
qualify for CL

If you need convincing further, I'll leave it to the words of your beloved Bill Shankly to summarise:

"If you are first you are first. If you are second you are nothing."
Ask Liverpool fans if they'd swap their League Cup win (under Kenny) for a CL place

Ask David Moyes if he wish he'd qualified for the CL.

If arsenal win the fa cup later, ask their fans if they'd swap the silverware and their day out for a CL place.

CL is everything to a club nowadays (revenue, stature, players you can recruit).

Even if they don't get beyond the group stage it's probably worth an extra £60m before you consider sponsorship

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2016/17 - the Mourinho era

Post by hancockjr »

thebillfella wrote:Have to agree; surely trophies come first and then places? Nobody remembers who finished second never mind third. Ask Arsenal fans how proud they are of their 4th place cup record?

Order is (and that excludes the Super Cup, Intercontinental Cup or World Club Cup say which all come into play as well):

Win PL
Win CL
Win Europa
Win FA Cup
Win League Cup
qualify for CL
Haven't seen the phrase "comedy gold" used for a while on here, so it's probably time: Comedy gold!

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