Important Update on Gameweek 18

[Totelfootball]

As most of you probably already know, Wigan vs Aston Villa and Liverpool vs Fulham have both been postponed. These fixtures will not be removed from our game, so theoretically you will still be able to select players from all four teams. The information regarding point allocation for postponed games is below:

If 3 or more players on a team do not play due to a match being cancelled, then the team is declared a non-runner. The stake bet on this team will be refunded to the customer and the pool is reduced in size.

If 1 or 2 players on a team do not play due to a match being cancelled, the team continues within the competition but the players that do not play will be allocated points as follows:

Goalkeeper 2
Defender 4
Midfielder 5
Striker 6

[Chrisharry12345]

wheres the round gone? if it doesnt come back i will be fuming!! just spend two hours making sure all of my teams had 11 players in. theres nothing in the t+c's saying the round will close with cancellations

EDIT: Glad to see its back

[bennyc]

Amending my teams now i note that there is no option to pick players that have been snowed off? This completely contradicts the TF's message on here.

As long as the rule stating that if you have 3 players in your team who don't play then your team is invalid then I'm happy.

[bennyc]

As most of you probably already know, Wigan vs Aston Villa and Liverpool vs Fulham have both been postponed. These fixtures will not be removed from our game, so theoretically you will still be able to select players from all four teams. The information regarding point allocation for postponed games is below:

If 3 or more players on a team do not play due to a match being cancelled, then the team is declared a non-runner. The stake bet on this team will be refunded to the customer and the pool is reduced in size.

If 1 or 2 players on a team do not play due to a match being cancelled, the team continues within the competition but the players that do not play will be allocated points as follows:

Goalkeeper 2
Defender 4
Midfielder 5
Striker 6

So the current table is invalid obviously. It's going to be a mental competition this week.

[Chrisharry12345]

all games off tomorrow so totels void as you cant stick a full team in. gutted!

[bennyc]

all games off tomorrow so totels void as you cant stick a full team in. gutted!

I seriously thought about doing the following but didn't - might have been interesting

Picking 6 blackburn and 5 west ham players. 55 for starting - 35 for extra players penalty.

20pts plus whatever was accrued during the game.

Technically a valid team.

Should have done it.

[tedbull]

all games off tomorrow so totels void as you cant stick a full team in. gutted!

I've got:
2 x Blackburn
2 x West Ham
2 x Chelsea (11 points)
2 x Everton
3 x City (-5)

Valid?

[bennyc]

all games off tomorrow so totels void as you cant stick a full team in. gutted!

I've got:
2 x Blackburn
2 x West Ham
2 x Chelsea (11 points)
2 x Everton
3 x City (-5)

Valid?

Yes. Well done Ted. Fingers crossed the City game is on for you mate.

[tedbull]

I haven't particulary picked well so far so I'm sure there'll be someone out there who has done better.

What would the payout be? Do they still have to guarantee the prize pool?

[bennyc]

I haven't particulary picked well so far so I'm sure there'll be someone out there who has done better.

What would the payout be? Do they still have to guarantee the prize pool?

I would be stunned if anyone had the foresight to do what you have. According to terms and conditions there isn't a minimum number of games that have to take place in order for a round to be valid.

As TF have stated if you have 3 or more players who don't play due to their teams game being suspended then your team is invalid and your stake is refunded.

Providing the Man City game takes place then you will have a valid team and should be paid accordingly.

Depends how many valid teams there are but you will be looking at a pretty decent return if you don't scoop the whole lot.

[tedbull]

Can TF confirm how many valid teams remain in this week's comp as the leaderboard is full of voided teams?

[tedbull]

TF is online right now so we should have an answer soon

[bennyc]

It appears the leaderboard has been updated but not quite sure why?

All the teams (bar Ted's) have more than 3 players who aren't playing due to snow cancellations. Not sure why these teams haven't been cancelled and refunded.

[tedbull]

My team is in 198th... which leads me to believe that there have to be at least 10 teams (and likely more as I've not scored well) that are in contention. I'd guess a few might have punted on West Ham/Blackburn teams with multi-points deductions.

Not sure why I was 155th before this morning's update, though.

[bennyc]

It's just because cancellation points have been awarded to all players and a lot of yours haven't played yet.

[Totelfootball]

The are a few teams which remain valied in the competition.. Some shrewdies saw the opportunities efforded by banking on the few games that went ahead.

We are reviewing the process we use to void teams - just want to ensure that there are no hiccups in new functionality we have added to deal with suspended/cancelled games. Our developer is unavailable at present (xmas shopping), but he will get to this during the afternoon and an updated leaderboard will be presented this afternoon/evening.

The total pool is guaranteed to €1,000 so we will be making up the shortfall in the pool. However, most of the pool will be returned to customers to pay for voided bets so the prize pool will be very much depleted. Afraid no soft Xmas presents available to customers this week-end.

[tedbull]

For info... I've queried the response by TF on another site. Copied here if anyone is interested or has an opinion.

Thanks for the response TF.

That's an unusual interpretation of the rules, though. Why would voided entries reduce the guaranteed prize pool? Surely you would simply return the funds to those who have voided teams and the comp runs as normal with the remaining teams. That is, that you guarantee the pool to 1,000 (less 20%) and just pay the top 5% which this week would likely be just one team.

Under your proposed interpretation of your rules how many places would you propose to pay out? The comp wouldn't be based upon the premise of a 10 or 20 team comp so presumably you'd pay 10 places with the reduced pot?

Honestly, I'm not sure I agree with your interpretation. In theory, if you followed your methods and the prize pool had exceeded the guaranteed amount then would be running a comp with a prize pool of pretty much fk all.

For example:
1500 teams enter staking 2 each.
1480 of those teams get voided
20 valid teams remain with stakes of 2

In your interpretation the prize pool would be just 40

That's not the comp I entered. I entered a comp with a guaranteed prize pool of 1000 less 20% rake, and you take the risk of getting enough entries to make it a worthwhile business.

Be interested to hear what others make of this interpretation. Am I wide of the mark?

[bennyc]

The are a few teams which remain valied in the competition.. Some shrewdies saw the opportunities efforded by banking on the few games that went ahead.

We are reviewing the process we use to void teams - just want to ensure that there are no hiccups in new functionality we have added to deal with suspended/cancelled games. Our developer is unavailable at present (xmas shopping), but he will get to this during the afternoon and an updated leaderboard will be presented this afternoon/evening.

The total pool is guaranteed to €1,000 so we will be making up the shortfall in the pool. However, most of the pool will be returned to customers to pay for voided bets so the prize pool will be very much depleted. Afraid no soft Xmas presents available to customers this week-end.

Don't really understand the paragraph in blue. Are you saying you are not paying out 1,000 euros or you are paying it out.

Irrespective of whether there is one valid team or a thousand valid teams you are GUARANTEEING a 1,000 euro pay out.

The fact you have to refund loads of teams because they didn't meet your stated criteria is irrelevant to you having to guarantee the pay out.

Still don't fully understand what you're saying but if it's a way of saying you're not paying out the 1,000 euros - 20% rake then you don't have a leg to stand on.

[tedbull]

100% agree with you Benny.

Presumably there aren't any other FISOers with something at stake this week but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be concerned that TF has made such a decision.

[Chrisharry12345]

I also interpreted it that the full prize fund would be paid out despite the cancellations as the prize fund was guarented.

I realise that the pot grows with the size of the entrys and totel have put up a guarenteed amount to attract the entrys but I havent seen any clause to say the guarenteed pool would be void if there were cancellations

[bennyc]

I also interpreted it that the full prize fund would be paid out despite the cancellations as the prize fund was guarented.

I realise that the pot grows with the size of the entrys and totel have put up a guarenteed amount to attract the entrys but I havent seen any clause to say the guarenteed pool would be void if there were cancellations

The only way the pot grows is upwards from a base of 1,000 euros because that's the guaranteed minimum.

As you say Chris there is no clause to say that the guaranteed pool can be withdrawn under any circumstances.

TF had plenty of opportunities to scrap this prior to 3pm due to the farcical nature the game had become due to cancellations - but they opted not to do so.

[tedbull]

I think the statement they are hanging their hat on is under Cancellations... where they state that if 3 or more players don't play due to cancellations...

The stake bet on this team will be refunded to the customer and the pool is reduced in size.

That's logical that you don't include a voided stake in the prize pool - if the guaranteed minimum prize pool has been exceeded.

If you guarantee a prize pooll then you guarantee a prize pool. There's nothing in the rules that so much as intimates that it wouldn't be the case.

TF, can you please review your interpretation and confirm that 800 Euros will be shared among the top 5% of the valid entries (likely to be just one person and, given my selections, highly unlikely to be me - before anyone thinks my comments are self serving).

[Chrisharry12345]

The stake bet on this team will be refunded to the customer and the pool is reduced in size.

they may have an argument with that on then.. needs to be worded better really to explain that the pot is only guaranteed if theres no cancellations

[bennyc]

The stake bet on this team will be refunded to the customer and the pool is reduced in size.

they may have an argument with that on then.. needs to be worded better really to explain that the pot is only guaranteed if theres no cancellations

They do going forward. But for this week the guaranteed prize pool should be just that.

[tedbull]

The statement isn't really relevant to this week's circumstances. It just clarifies what would already be a common sense interpretation... that is that voided teams and their stakes are removed from the game. What is then left is covered by the other rules. Including the guaranteed prize pool.

If what TF has said in his post is being interpreted correctly then it's a clear attempt to get out of their obligations. They guarantee a prize pool and haven't placed any restrictions or limits on when it applies.

What would be great would be if TF could come back with some sort of opinion.

[Totelfootball]

Let's examine the relevant rules relating to the payout on this week-end's game as per the TotelFootball site...

1) With regard to Winning Prizes
..."Stake money collected creates a prize pool. 20% of the total prize pool will be retained to cover operational expenses. Please be aware that the advertised total prize pool is at all times referred to before deduction has been made."

2) With regard to Match Cancellations
"If 3 or more players on a team do not play due to a match being cancelled, then the team is declared a non-runner. The stake bet on this team will be refunded to the customer and the pool is reduced in size."


We think it pretty clear that these rules explain that the total pool of €1k is prior to deductions. It's hard to argue that the return of customer stakes is not a reasonable deduction.

We guarantee that there will be €1k in this pool prior to deductions, and we will hold fast in this guarantee. This weekend's pool was quite low as many customers presumed the game would be cancelled:
Total pool bets: €778.40
Cancelled bets: €693.60
Live bets: €84.80

TotelFootball need to contribute an amount to the pool to make the pool up to a €1,000 pool (prior to deductions). This is calculated as follows:

Pool Shortfall = €1,000 - (cancelled bets amount) - (live bet pool)
= €1,000 - €693.60 - €84.80
= €221.6

As we only ever pay out 80% of this the total pool, then TotelFootball would be required to top up the pool with an additional €177.28. So the remaining players will be playing for a payout of €262.08.

Note: All of the above presume that tonight's game goes ahead. Failing this we'll need to reexamine all payout amounts, etc.

[ronny10]

Well I haven't played this game since the first few weeks but like to keep upto date with how the game is progressing. If you are advertising a guaranteed prize pool then that should be the amount you pay out.

Its unfortunate that so many games were cancelled and if it makes you feel any better there are other games out there that don't make the rules that clear regarding situations like this.

I suppose its another learning curve and I really can't see your arguement regarding a reduced pool

[tedbull]

1) That rule has no relevance in this matter. The pool is prior to your 20% being deducted Yes, we know that
2) I think we covered this one for you above.

Honestly, this an absolute sham, totelfkup. You know what the rules are and have spent the last couple of days trying to get around them. You insult our intelligence with your posts on this thread. You are still yet to make a case for what you've done.

The winner wil take this money through small claims if they're that way inclined. It's an absolute gimme that you have to payout.


By the way, the pool grew from 207 to 212 and now 213 before this last update. I've dropped three places with the entry of one team! Had 9 teams below me, now just 6!

Just a shambles. And dishonest to the last.

[bennyc]

Wonder who Punter is

[chrispyb]

A guaranteed pool is a guaranteed pool regardless of teams that have been refunded. All remaining teams are valid and playing for the pool of 1K euros without doubt. As somebody has said the only valid reason to reduce the pool would be if the entries had exceeded the guaranteed pool size.