Rootin' for Joe etc...

[Ducks Deluxe]

I thought that I would note Joe's first Test as captain by starting a thread for England type affairs...

I wish him a long and successful reign..He is fortunate to have such a fine and unselfish man as AC to call on...If only he had a fitter bowling line up to rely on..Hopefully the opener problem will be resolved before The Ashes.....Mind you....there are a lot of Aussie issues to be resolved before then with the 'A' tour to South Africa cancelled today..

Several significant players missing for SA today.... fingers crossed!

DD...

[forestfan]

New captain, same old result of being sod all for 3.

For all our exciting progress in white ball cricket we're stagnating or going backwards as a Test side, we haven't had a functional top order in a few years, we've had a revolving door at opener and number 3, and are massively reliant on two or three batsmen and a fragile and ageing seam attack.

[Ducks Deluxe]

Hello forestfan.... Totally agree with you re the selection issues. I would probably only have around six of this side as automatic picks..

I am a distance from home at present and interwebby constantly breaks down... Couldn't believe when I eventually saw that three went down so quickly, especially as England elected to bat!

DD....

[ooozzzie]

Very pleasant sat here in the garden watching the Test, think England were right to bat first obviously, you have to at Lords, but it was green and Morkel and Philander were getting a bit out of it. It seems to have calmed down now......thats the best excuse I can come up with, doubt it will change Forest Fan's view but it wasn't supposed to. It was poor batting as well, the reviews were terrible. I agree about the aging attack though. Would have liked to have seen Mason Crane play. We all wait to see how Jimmy goes.

[The Catman]

Poor umpiring, they have missed numerous no-balls, and Jennings' decision was a bad one....made even worse by Jennings not reviewing it - pitched outside leg and would have missed leg stump

[liquidfootball2]

Yes catman you have to question not reviewing such a call, the umpire Ravi took an age to raise his finger too, certainly looked well worth a review in live action. Gary Ballance obviously didn't insist he review it either.

Jennings needed a little more help from the more experienced Gary Ballance there too – he got a good view and had a couple of looks too as he walked down the track. The ball pitched outside leg and was missing too which must hurt. His brain was possibly scrambled but he did of course review his own dismissal which was a very full delivery and smashing into the stumps.

The whole side looks completely unbalanced with at least a batsman short and too many bowlers.

Six bowlers including two spinners at Lords? It certainly looks as though they're so frightened of one or three bowlers dropping out that they're trying to cover too many bases.

Gary Ballance, even if relatively prolific at county level, has a history of being found out in tests. I'm not sure anything has changed as there are just too many technical deficiencies to cope against any real quality quick stuff.

He always did play back in the crease and while he may be making efforts to remedy it, he'll find it a lot harder getting a stride forward when faced with a higher quality of quick bowler. It's just one innings and hardly fair to be so hard on him, but it's just that we're stuck on repeat and have been through this so many times before with him.

Well done Joe, we needed it.

The over rate from South Africa has been absolutely appalling.

[The Catman]

Yes, scrambled mind.

At least SA's awful over rate was balanced by two no balls that would otherwise have been wickets

[liquidfootball2]

Great recovery from England after a poor first session.

Thought the first 3 wickets were very poor; a dreadful and uncharacteristic shot from Cook, Jennings missing a 4 ball then not reviewing it when wrongly given out and Ballance getting caught on the crease to a quicky - yet again. Bairstow, just about fair enough, the bowler worked him over nicely and earned the wicket.

Ballance just can't disguise the holes in his technique which aren't highlighted in county cricket when the ball is older and he is batting at four or five. A few short balls - just to make sure his front foot isn't extended too far in front of the popping crease - then a straight full one to pin him right in front after a shuffle across the crease. Lateral movement is supposed to be what a bowler achieves not what a batsman does.

Unbelievable from Root today though. All the pressure as captain, team in big bother and he comes up with that like it was nothing. He definitely had a bit of luck up front, could've been out twice before getting to 20 but he made them pay in style. The last session when he put the foot down he was sublime.

Obviously, credit to Ben Stokes, once again when England needed him he put in a great effort. Wasn't scared of taking calculated risks and with Root both put the bowlers on their back foot in the middle session. Pity he got out but Ali took the baton and carried on with the momentum excellently.

Always nice to see the middle order show that character under pressure (although I do think a really tiring and almost spent SA dropped off as the day went on) but I worry it's too often the same story, it seems England are always 50-3. This was always the concern when they picked Ballance. Has he changed? Has he learned? Not on today's evidence. He definitely isn't a test number 3 with a technique like that against the new ball, he either gets a try at 5 or gets out the team for me.

England will be thinking they can get 450-500 if the two not out men are still at the crease after an hour in the morning, which will be some comeback from 70odd for 4.

[Ducks Deluxe]

Good review, LF2....Yes,all things considered ,an astonishing day for Joe....I really wish him well (and a better balanced side.)

As I have said elsewhere on these pages,I wonder if GB will turn out to be one of those great country level batsmen who doesn't go on to have a significant international career? Ramps springs to mind.I sincerely hope I am wrong but numbers 1 ,3 and any number of bowling slots need to be settled before the summer is out...

DD.

[Ducks Deluxe]

Soo..Dawson is either the best specialist spinner in England or a more reliable lower order batsman than TRJ.....Que?

DD....

PS....maybe he will get a fivefer and I'll apologise!

[Ducks Deluxe]

Shame that Moe didn't get his ton( and Joe his double earlier on) but so good to see Broad get a few again....at last...

DD...

[liquidfootball2]

Although the day really belonged to Moeen and Broad I though Root was quietly impressive on his first day captaining in the field.

It's only his fifth first-class game as a captain and Root was never overtly aggressive, like roaring in the batsman’s face as Kagiso Rabada had done when sending off Ben Stokes, or macho-posturing at slip or waving his arms like a control-freak. Far more importantly, he never let the game drift and South Africa’s batsmen become comfortable, but radiated intent in his bowling changes and field-placings, so that England have only 12 overs to wait for their second new ball and already South Africa are five wickets down, and still 244 runs behind.

The only quibble I really had was the last hour and a half when
Root seemed to go on hoping his bowlers may reverse swing it a bit too long, there really wasn't much, if any. Prior to that Moeen Ali had looked really dangerous and bowled excellently with marked turn and bounce, causing a host of problems for batsmen intent on defence. He should've been back on after Dawson bowled a meek few overs to replace him, surely the attacking Rashid should have been picked ahead of Dawson.

SA do have players left who can bat but England will be confident of a decent lead from this position.


Rabada banned from the second test for some loutish behaviour when Stokes was dismissed

http://www.skysports.com/share/10941083

[forestfan]

Rabada banned from the second test for some loutish behaviour when Stokes was dismissed

http://www.skysports.com/share/10941083

I was surprised a bit of effing and jeffing was enough to get a ban, but it seems it's accumulation of offences. A blow to them with Steyn already missing.

Match in the balance, two fragile top orders, England need to finish them off quickly tomorrow to give them a chance to build an unassailable lead. Still de Kock to come at number 8 (protected by a nightwatchman) who is probably one of their best three batsmen...

[liquidfootball2]

Match in the balance, two fragile top orders, England need to finish them off quickly tomorrow to give them a chance to build an unassailable lead. Still de Kock to come at number 8 (protected by a nightwatchman) who is probably one of their best three batsmen...

Of course fortunes can change dramatically in a test over four or five long days and that for me is what makes it so watchable and fascinating. De Kock, a really talented and attacking proper batsman, is surely a place or two too low and now very much in danger of being stranded without making much of a contribution at all.

For me the match is indeed in the balance, with that balance very much being weighted heavily in England's favour.

[ooozzzie]

Rabada banned from the second test for some loutish behaviour when Stokes was dismissed

http://www.skysports.com/share/10941083

I was surprised a bit of effing and jeffing was enough to get a ban, but it seems it's accumulation of offences. A blow to them with Steyn already missing.

Match in the balance, two fragile top orders, England need to finish them off quickly tomorrow to give them a chance to build an unassailable lead. Still de Kock to come at number 8 (protected by a nightwatchman) who is probably one of their best three batsmen...

New Laws, and from Oct 2017 a player can be suspended DURING the game, or sent off for the whole game. So had this happened in 3 months time, then the Umpires would be able to take immediate action, not quite sure where this would fall in the new laws, Level 1 to Level 4. But no doubt it would be in one of them. Probably Level 1, but that is going to depend on how the umpire sees it at the time, another Umpire could say Level 4 and send him off.

http://www.legb4cricket.com/2017/04/new ... duced.html

[Ducks Deluxe]

Another informative review, LF2..thanks.Glad to read that Joe is conducting himself so well...

A bit ironic that Rabada gets in hot water for loutish behaviour against Stokes...of all people!

Has any explanation emerged as to why Rashid was bumped for Dawson? If Ballance was picked at Joe's request (as I have read) it seems especially strange.....

DD..

[liquidfootball2]

The England openers scoring rate may have been sedate at best and even turgid at times but Joe Root should keep up that fine tradition of England captains from Yorkshire over the next day or so with his team in supreme command of this match.

Of the nine Yorkshiremen to have led England only two have started with a defeat and one of them, Norman Yardley, at least had the excuse of facing Donald Bradman in the opposition.

The other was Michael Vaughan, thrashed here by South Africa in 2003 but this year’s tourists are way out of contention and can only drop anchor and try for an unlikely draw.

A half century from Alastair Cook proved his return to the ranks would be as seamless as expected from a fine team man and yet again made the task of scoring difficult runs look relatively comfortable on a pitch that will be very tough to survive on for long in the fourth innings.

Gary Ballance looked more assured than in the first innings, perhaps benefiting from a three man bowling attack that lacked the injured Philander and contained a struggling Rabada.

He has to seize this golden chance to prove his third coming as an England player has a decent life expectancy. With no real pace and an old ball he will never have a better opportunity.

The third innings before a declaration can be tedious, especially on a pitch drier and turning more than any seen at Lord’s for many years but it has at least justified England’s decision to pick two spinners for only the second time in a Test here for three decades.

Liam Dawson’s two wickets represented a better day for him as well but if Moeen’s job is to attack then he has to hold an end for his captain and was expensive conceding runs at four and a half an over.

[liquidfootball2]

A few wickets have fallen quickly but I'm afraid it's the same old, same old for Gary Ballance.

Two feet planted and bat hung out to dry, meekly nicks off to Morkel as we seem to have seen time and time again. His technique to any of the quicker bowlers just doesn't stand up. This was an unbelievable chance for him against an attack without lightening pace and he's sadly just not up to it.

He hasn't changed but this time surely we can't give him the time and patience he's been afforded previously.

Time to lose him as he's the last person I'd consider for Australia with their battery of quality pace men, why prolong the agony?

[forestfan]

They're not going to ditch someone again after one match, he's got this series until it's decided at least. He was in a no-win situation today, having to "hit out or get out" to give the team the best chance of winning, if he'd played for his own score then he would have been criticised even more.

Big problems for England's batting now though, SA could give themselves something more than chaseable. I'd back them to get 300.

[liquidfootball2]

He wasn't scoring quickly, in my book 34 off 78 balls comes nowhere near that.

His shot wasn't an attacking one just a nothing one. While I agree its extremely unlikely they'd even remotely consider dropping him now especially these days of giving everyone a reasonable and fair crack of the whip, and its a policy I agree with too, Ballance's technique is still fatally flawed and its just delaying the inevitable.

Bairstow succeeded eventually by dramatically changing his technique to cope with the areas that had undone him previously and met with immediate results, without similarly appropriate changes, Ballance can only be expected to attain the same poor results.

[Ducks Deluxe]

Desperately sad about Ballance but I am sure they will give him at least one more Test and then that has to be that...

I am sure that Rabada enjoyed getting Stokes!

Next few wickets crucial.. I hope Broad steps up again..

DD...

[forestfan]

Dawson picked for his batting then? Needs a big performance with the ball...

[Ducks Deluxe]

What a mess . As was said above ,I dread to think what will happen in Brisbane if radical changes to key positions aren't made soon. Imagine what a full strength SA attack would do?

DD...

[liquidfootball2]

So those overly cautious batsmen with the too-slow run rates, what a blessing in disguise that they're gone...

Well no not really

If you're thinking this will be easy to chase then its probably worth a bet as the bookmakers at lunch had England 2/5 fav and SA at 5/2

[forestfan]

Not easy, but possible... we shouldn't have given them a sniff.

Probably more chance of us actually winning now the draw is out of the equation - but lose from this position and they probably just fold to a 4-0 whitewash.

[liquidfootball2]

In answer to a rather unpleasant post from Maldini..(apparently since deleted)

I may have been a little harsh on him this time with his dismissal as it did indeed seam a little, but his technique involving hardly any movement of the feet other than a shuffle across or a tentative push forward barely clearing the popping crease inevitably leads to trouble against the quicks.

He doesn't have any credit in the bank as others do, its not his first home test by any means or exactly his first go at it.

The question of trying to get on with it was raised by Forest and I pointed out he was hardly leading the charge.

I'm far from alone in being a little surprised at his selection but the new captain obviously pushed for it, apparently on the grounds that he had changed and ironed the creases out to be far better equipped this time.

On the evidence I've seen so far its sadly not looked to be the case. It's because of the baggage he's carrying that the microscope is so heavily focussed upon him.

I want him to do well as I always want England batsmen to prosper and I certainly have no fixation at all about one I can only see about to fail yet again.

[Maldini]

It wasn't unpleasant in the slightest.

All it did was question your obsession with Ballance bordering on being weird.

I deleted it because I remember you being a bit of a drama queen before you disappeared.

As I said in my not unpleasant post, he was out to a great ball that pitched in line and seamed away just enough to catch is edge.

I also said in my post that was in no way unpleasant, it's not his fault they keep picking him and if he was half as bad as you make him out to be, he wouldn't get near the Yorkshire team never-mind the England team.

You can go about your business of being overly critical of professional sportsmen now.

I assume you are/were brilliant at your profession and never make a mistake.

[liquidfootball2]

It wasn't unpleasant in the slightest.

All it did was question your obsession with Ballance bordering on being weird.

I deleted it because I remember you being a bit of a drama queen before you disappeared.

You persist on insulting people here and elsewhere at every opportunity and its something I'd rather do without so I'll leave you to it.

[Maldini]

Odd that you are often overly critical but throw a strop when your opinion is questioned.

Why is that?

[Edmondson]

Ballance needs to go.

The nailed on spots when all fully fit:

1. Cook
2.
3.
4. Root c
5. Bairstow wk
6. Stokes
7. Ali
8. Woakes
9. Broad (for now)
10.
11. Anderson (for now)

So looking for 3 players, which isn't too bad but need to start bedding the players in.

Opener slot: Hameed (looks classy shame he hasn't hit form this season), Hales (?!?) or Jennings. Or give Stoneman a go?

Number 3: Jennings could drop in here, Westley? Malan for a bit of flair? I think we have to find a 3, rather than mess about with the order to squeeze Ali in, or Buttler.

Bowler: Rashid should be playing, Crane looks a decent prospect. I really like the look of Tom Curran, be good to see him getting a chance. Hopefully Dawson will get a few and be an option, his batting would be useful. Archer at Sussex even may demand a look? I do like Wood, he does seem to have caused some nervousness alongside the two senior seamers around 'breaking down'.

There is enough of a base there to get a couple of new players in. Don't have to go backwards to those that have had chances.