TFC 2016 - July to Sept - team news and chat

[Doogal]

Good new entry in the 'x stopped play' annals (police chase stops play): http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-sout ... s-36926221 . I have personally been in matches stopped by a fox pursued by hunt, horses which broke through from a nearby field, and local teenagers riding a motor bike on to the field, but I think this one is better.

[jimwinn]

Good one D

I googled it as your link is broken

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-sout ... s-36926221

[futabudgi]

Hello Steve... I had absolutely no idea that I was up against you...how strange..... thank you for your gracious message....

No hatred,I assure you and I am sure that you are a decent bloke,simply two different philosophies about TFC.....

Forgive me for repeating myself but I have been playing the game from the beginning in the pre internet era.It was intended as a new fun service for readers of the newspaper. Weekly codes had to be obtained from the paper and transfers were by post or by telephone! I started to play partly to help my very young son get into cricket and as a vehicle for 'fun' counting...!...It sort of worked.... he is now a six foot two cricket nut,very useful seam bowler.... and has a Master's Degree in Civil Engineering... All that counting practice.... We used to have to physically record the scores on the charts provided by the Telegraph....

It is with this background that I view the phenomenon of the multi multis ,who flood the game and are able to cover so many permutations that it really puts off more 'casual' players..It has become so cheap to enter large numbers of teams compared to individual ones that I can see the attraction, but I simply don't think that it is ' sporting.'

reading this brought back fond memories of the good old days when I used to be forever glued to teletext to see how my players were getting on.. good times.

Interesting discussion which seems to come up at least once a year but always with a new angle.

I believe the reality is somewhere between the two schools of thought. The game wouldn't be sustainable with DD's model because it would be of no interest to the Telegraph to run a niche game with a high entry fee that only attracts a few hundred players. Lots of people aren't interested in cricket memorabilia but enjoy fantasy sports and the lift it gives to a enjoyable summer of Cricket. If we are interested in cricket memorabilia then we'd rather have a cash prize so we can choose to buy it rather than have it chosen for us. I appreciate the idea is because the game should be fun and enjoyable in it's own right and the prize isn't important but most casual players want some kind of incentive at the end of it, even if they only have a slim chance of winning something.

On the flip side, I think the Telegraph would prefer that the game wasn't largely made up of multis, especially in the football game where certain players have thousands of teams and the mind boggles as to what enjoyment or significant profit they can gain from this and their hourly rate if they actually win something. We tend to exaggerate our entry fees as some kind of key factor for running the game whereas I see it as more akin to the gate receipts at a top division football match, it helps but it's by no means the be all and end all.

The rationale for running the game is having enough players to a) fund the prize kitty, b) generate traffic for the website and interest for the sponsors and c) improve the chance of multi-channel sign-ups for things like TFF, Fantasy Horse Racing, Telegraph content and any other spin-offs they are running that year. If they can keep 1,000 players away from Sky Sports Fantasy Football by running a summer Cricket game then it makes it worth their while. That's why they'd definitely prefer 20,000 enthusiastic single team entries or even 5,000 managers with 4 teams than lots of multis supplemented few casual players who enter a single team and lose interest before the end of June.

[jimwinn]

Switching to smug mode today

Ditched Dent for Abell (c) in the super 8 team

[wizardoffire]

oh my days, my father and I loved teletext much to my mothers disgust especially during the summer, would be hopping between each page waiting for it to update from one page to the other then the in-vision score you could impose over the tv think was like pages 340 to 359

Want to say the BPL was 316 for the latest football scores


As for the subject of the multis, it allows for mulitple strategies and because you have so many combos, one will eventually strike gold. Still, Ive never tried managing so many teams, I at times doff my hat to those that can because even if one of those combos strikes gold, you still need to make the right moves to maintain it and in that in itself is the main skill.
I think the most teams Ive ever entered was maybe 20 in the TFF, where my girlfriend was also playing.

As, someone that never seems to be close to the business end of things, its frustrating when you see similar names all at the top. At the same time fantasy sport is a hobby/delving into a potential career, if you are good. For me I play for fun because it justs adds something extra to watching it. If my team aren't playing/not televised, Ill go watch other games where I have fantasy interests and see how they perform.

In my eyes, as much flak that multi entrants get, they are good for the game, if it wasn't for them, would we still be playing this game, that many of us have been playing for a very long time Multis certainly do allow for the game to exist in a day and age where daily fantasy sport is now King.
Daily fantasy sport is all well and fun but you just pick players for that day, there is no strategy to picking a long term team with a plan and managing your moves

[futabudgi]

In my eyes, as much flak that multi entrants get, they are good for the game, if it wasn't for them, would we still be playing this game, that many of us have been playing for a very long time Multis certainly do allow for the game to exist in a day and age where daily fantasy sport is now King.
Daily fantasy sport is all well and fun but you just pick players for that day, there is no strategy to picking a long term team with a plan and managing your moves

It's a good point Wizard. Multi or no multi, this humble little game we play here is a billion dollar industry in the United States and the art of a planning over a season would be too much for most of their players. While they have dynasty leagues where you draft a rookie and keep them for their career, even these leagues feel the need for day-to-day duelling between opponents to keep the attention of the players.

[Grant]

Switching to smug mode today

Ditched Dent for Abell (c) in the super 8 team

Inspired stuff Jim

[jimwinn]

Cheers G

278 from one player gets you 31st in the weekly

1st is 604 but I'm not chasing with a severe transfer shortage

[pdathert]

How will the game work next year with uneven teams in the CC divisions.

Surely 2nd division players would get more games and therefore should be priced higher, or will it all be too complicated and sound the death knell for the game?

[Jezza3]

Just thought I'd post re the ever resurfacing "multi" theme. I suppose I would class myself as a "mini multi". I entered about 20 in the cricket 10 in the cricket t20 and will enter about 30 in the football. I agree with most of what has been said and in particular I doubt the cricket game would be running if it were not for multi entries. I think the telegraph have tried to cater for all with e.g the introduction of (admittedly paid for) elite leagues where only one team per person can be entered so all are competing on a more level playing field. The fact that many of these leagues in both football and cricket are won by people who also do well in the main league suggests that the ability to "know you're stuff" is still of paramount importance however many teams you enter. There is obviously an advantage as others have stated in the ability to vary tactics but personally I think I have been doing worse the more teams I enter. The panic of trying to fit in transfers once team news is announced can lead to mistakes and I find it hard to focus on more than three or four teams. I used to win small amounts regularly when I entered fewer teams but as my number of teams has increased such winnings are becoming rarer rather than more frequent. Perhaps the whole fantasy world has become more competitive and some now treat it as a business but for those who love sport it still adds a lot to the enjoyment.

[futabudgi]

How will the game work next year with uneven teams in the CC divisions.

Surely 2nd division players would get more games and therefore should be priced higher, or will it all be too complicated and sound the death knell for the game?

They play the same amount of games because Division 2 won't play every team twice.

[bluelionman]

God damn it - does Tres not play one day games... brought him in and made him captain in 75% of my teams for b*gger all yesterday.

[banana]

1/There is obviously an advantage as others have stated in the ability to vary tactics but personally I think I have been doing worse the more teams I enter.

2/The panic of trying to fit in transfers once team news is announced can lead to mistakes and I find it hard to focus on more than three or four teams..

i very much agree with this.

re point 2: i found it much easier to run 80+ teams 15-20 years ago. there were fewer tfrs available and you could only tfr during a weekly tfr window - by phone/post . this made life very easy. now, with the technology facilitating instantaneous tfrs, there's far more time pressure involved.

re point 1: the trick is to actually vary tactics in the first place and keep those variations. it's awfully difficult to take one team and run it a certain way and then move on to another and totally switch mind set. ... esp if you are under time pressure. it's hard not to become excited about certain players and want to get blanket coverage. the result is that over the course of a season your teams can all end up looking remarkably similar. this negates the intended advantage of variety.

finally, futabudgi. really insightful posts. i love playing fantasy games but i know jack-all about the stuff that goes on behind the scenes and the bigger picture.
wow!! a multi-billion dollar industry in the states... ... that really does make me wish that i had as much of interest in baseball as i do in cricket. ... it would be a dream come true.... imagine being able to make a living out of doing this stuff. ... if only ....

[ooozzzie]

Weather OK today but not looking good for Monday

[Ducks Deluxe]

Hello playmates.....

I need to find time to post a proper reply later today.......but.......

Yet again I have been wiped out on transfer day with an 'Internal Server Error' message as I pressed the confirm button..... Last week my super 8 team had no transfers on the first day because of this on my tablet ,although I was able to transfer on my phone the following day. As of 20 mins ago neither the phone nor the tablet would process transfers....

That's what I get for waiting for the teams to be announced..... no time to set up the laptop after several days on the road....

Is anyone else having problems?

That is my super 8 team wiped out,so an easy ride for my opponent.....as if it wasn't tricky enough....... Sob,sigh.....

DDD......Dunce,Ducks Deluxe.........

[Ducks Deluxe]

The bloke who was to have been my transferred in captain has taken two early wickets...... I am beyond despair....

DDD

[futabudgi]

finally, futabudgi. really insightful posts. i love playing fantasy games but i know jack-all about the stuff that goes on behind the scenes and the bigger picture.
wow!! a multi-billion dollar industry in the states... ... that really does make me wish that i had as much of interest in baseball as i do in cricket. ... it would be a dream come true.... imagine being able to make a living out of doing this stuff. ... if only ....

Just think if you were to win the TFC equivalent in America, Banana, you'd become a celebrity.

Articles like this do make the mind boggle:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/briangoff/2 ... 00c60141b7

I put it down to two things, 1) the restriction of gambling across most states which fantasy sports have been generously protected from and 2) it's ingrained in the culture over there. The closest we have is the office based super leagues that run in the football and most of these use the free EPL model where you win a holiday from Visit Britain and there's no entry fee.

The likes of the Telegraph must be tearing their hair out thinking how ESPN and Yahoo can make millions out of this and many, many times more than the newspapers do from their complete content offering, not just fantasy sports.

[Ducks Deluxe]

All sorts of interesting posts over the past few days.Sorry I haven't been in a position to reply.

In my unrealistic, fantasy ,fantasy world...TFC would still be played in the original 'spirit' .....there would be a low cap of fairly expensive teams and folk could start on a 'level playing field,' with the multi multis getting their kicks elsewhere. I don't'buy' the idea that we should be grateful to the M Ms for the continued existence of the game.....

The sheer number of permutations that can be covered and risks taken by eg one player with 100 teams compared to eg,20 players with 5 teams is staggering... it becomes a totally different contest...

For years Her Nibs has been moaning about the multi multis.... I tried to explain my 'formula' ,that the game was about a third luck, a third dedication and a third skill. On reflection , the luck component is higher than a third unless one is a multi multi and luck becomes a much smaller factor, across the board....

Good point about America.... Many years ago. Colin Patterson ,a Scottish bloke who is a BBC entertainment correspondent won the main game. I think the prize was a trip to Oz for the Ashes with spending money! Due to his position he got quite alot of media attention. When asked for the secret of his success,I think he said mainly to pick Australian players iin the second division! I am pretty sure he went on to talk about the phenomenon of 'professional' gaming in the USA with it being a job for serious gamblers ,spread sheets,mathematical programmes etc..

It seemed utterly ridiculous to me and I had a shudder that this approach would ever be permitted into my beloved TFC! Somewhere down the line ,I seem to recall that the Telegraph gave up running the game themselves and it was farmed out to one of the new 'gaming companies.' In my imagination, the 'cricketing values' of the game began to be eroded,and we end up where we are today with the'rules' being chipped away at to the detriment of the'small' player...

I seem to be almost alone (on this forum) but never mind! Honourable mention ,as always, goes to those who so freely share their knowledge and humour, such as my mates 'Nana and Ooozzzie! xxx

I loooved the mention of ceefax! I was addicted to it and mourned it's demise.... I seemed to remember that it started at page 340....and one of you clever lads confirmed it!

Good 'spirit of cricket' vibes to all..

DD......still smarting about my transfer debacle... Hmmmm...

[wizardoffire]

damn DD, that sucks to hear you not being able to get your transfers in fingers crossed its not the bell tolling.


I for one tend to play a lot of North American sport and depending on which way you look at it, the UK model and the NA model are total contrasts.
The UK model is unique in a sense that everyone can pick from the same pool of players whereas in the NA model you enter into a room with x number of players (depending on your choice of game settings etc) and then take in turns to pick in a randomly generated order. If you want a certain player for your team, you have to trade with another player.
The NA model, there is no real season competition really with everyone playing in small leagues where FPL/TFF/TFC you are playing against everyone else. You just play against the group of friends/random people you wound up in. Thats one of the biggest dislikes of the NA model, people give up VERY quickly especially if they get a bad draft and it then becomes a dead league.

As Sam, has rightly pointed out it is a huge industry, companies such as draftkings and fanduel are so big that they can now sponsor TV segments. They are also big in a sense that they can provide pre paid all access competitions from just winning a daily contest. In the last year I've seen them offer prizes to go to the MLS all star game, be a General Manager for a day and so on.
However, like anything there has been a ton of controversary surrounding these companies. Staff members have been accused of insider trading, where they were playing on another site and using price information to their advantage
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/06/sport ... .html?_r=0

The strength of the NA model is now in its daily fantasy sport (DFS). I've done fairly well in free DFS with placings in the top 75 and also a couple of wins to boot, however I've yet to take the plunge in actually entering the DFS money leagues. The only difference with the DFS is everyone can pick from the same pool of players so teams can be very similar, you just need to find that "sleeper"/"enabler" that can provide the ultimate difference. They are tempting, several of the NFL contests in particular offer you the chance to win $1 mill Can you imagine a UK format offering that sort of money for a weekends work

I know that they have tried to break into the UK market but Im unsure as to what impact that they are having. I know that with the premier league returning, Im tempted to have a go at that daily format. Each to their own though.

This post may have turned into more of an essay than I intended but if you have got this far, I hope you found it insightful and if you did have a pat on the back

[Ducks Deluxe]

Wizard,that is a fascinating, if pretty scary post!

One of my (many) problems is that I don't gamble and would wish to live in a Corinthian never-never land of fair play ,equal opportunities for all players etc.....Ha,ha!

Regarding that bell....I think you are right.....or else Sunday Evening Service is very early today!!!

Best to all,DD...

[Ducks Deluxe]

I have to say that it was gratifying to see Gidman in the wickets today. Already it seems like a long time since he was practically an automatic pick....

DD..

[Grant]

Just the 15 man squad!!

The Surrey squad to play Glamorgan at the Kia Oval in the Royal London One Day Cup on Monday 1st August:
Gareth Batty (capt)
Rory Burns
Sam Curran
Tom Curran
Steven Davies
Jade Dernbach
Aaron Finch
Ben Foakes
Mark Footitt
Stuart Meaker
Mathew Pillans
Jason Roy
Dominic Sibley
Freddie van den Bergh
Gary Wilson

[Grant]

As Sam, has rightly pointed out it is a huge industry, companies such as draftkings and fanduel are so big that they can now sponsor TV segments. They are also big in a sense that they can provide pre paid all access competitions from just winning a daily contest. In the last year I've seen them offer prizes to go to the MLS all star game, be a General Manager for a day and so on.
However, like anything there has been a ton of controversary surrounding these companies. Staff members have been accused of insider trading, where they were playing on another site and using price information to their advantage
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/06/sport ... .html?_r=0

The other issue on the US fantasy sports sites is that many are getting caught in the legislation around real money sports betting, such that they are now banned in a number of States (e.g. New York/Texas). I spend a bit of time looking at these from a work perspective (I focus on real money sites from a financial perspective), so interested to see it from both that side of things as well as a hobby.

FWIW on the other debate, no issue at all with multis. In my mind, can just make it more confused, as you either make the right decision or not, and risk is you spread wrong decisions across teams - admittedly, once you have hundreds, then surely you can't lose! Agreed, it helps massively at the start as you can cover more bases. If they keep the game going, then more the merrier...

[ooozzzie]

Yes interesting post Grant. Its a fine line the old "gambling" tag isn't it Lottery, Horse Racing, Bingo, Slots, Fantasy Sports, Poker, How many Corners, they are all gambling. USA IS without doubt in another league when it comes to sports fantasy gambling, and yes maybe true it has been fueled by the Poker online betting ban.

But what I would say is, we are the converted, and even some of us are not that keen on gambling that much. So, perhaps sports fantasy "betting" is not that high here. I don't think it is myself. But of course it can be done online at perhaps better odds? One against the bookie, and so it is big in that respect. I won't gamble more than £10 a month myself, happy to do that, but when that's gone its gone. That includes my £1 weekly lost effort on the Cricket I might stick a couple of quid on a horse a week and buy a lottery ticket, but thats my lot.

Multi's good luck to you, you pays your money etc, again it's out of my league to pay big money to play, I am more than happy with my 5 teams and a weekly effort.
So good that we have have multi players, one day I might join you, mind you if my other gamble, the lottery comes in, I won't have time.

Changing the subject.
Just remembering 1966, 50 years on and Football, Aged 9 then We used to play down the local park from dawn to dusk, or when school finished anyway. There were 10 pitches to play on, so we had plenty of space and didn't bother anyone at all. Obviously the one nearest the gate would get a bit of stick, but now and again, one team used to forget to take a net down....whooops.....or if we were really lucky, BOTH nets down. You can imagine, we would play on that goal or goals all week long, What a bloody mess! We were covered in mud head to toe every single night, that pitch was a just a muddy bog by the following Saturday. We even used to go up to watch the players leave the dressing room to go down to the pitch, and just laugh for ages...... Funny but oh so true. They used to play on it in those days as well, what a laugh, we would be kicking a ball about on the green bit behind the goal

[ooozzzie]

Right trying to work out this weather and what will happen. Seems that the North group is between 3 or 4 teams that all play today, and its really hard to see if the games at Derby and Nottingham are going to get rained off or not. They will see some rain, but they are right on the edge of the rain mass, and it is edging Northwards.

Can't see anyway that Surrey and Glamorgan will finish their game, looks like Surrey will miss out again. Will post again later about North group teams.

[Ducks Deluxe]

Well......last night I checked the weather and it seemed as if most games would get away with it....didn't seem like that 24 hrs earlier.......

However, I was working from The Cricketer wall chart and only this morning did it click that we have 14.00 starts.....Doh...I need the Surrey game ( and others) to be played out!

Change of subject but it was good to see Tom Fell get a good knock yesterday after his troubles at such a young age....

DD...

[RightWing]

Right trying to work out this weather and what will happen. Seems that the North group is between 3 or 4 teams that all play today, and its really hard to see if the games at Derby and Nottingham are going to get rained off or not. They will see some rain, but they are right on the edge of the rain mass, and it is edging Northwards.

Can't see anyway that Surrey and Glamorgan will finish their game, looks like Surrey will miss out again. Will post again later about North group teams.

Derby, Nottingham and Surrey all start, and raining at Yorks, and Lancs!

Good call Michael "ooozzzie" Fish.

[ooozzzie]

Right trying to work out this weather and what will happen. Seems that the North group is between 3 or 4 teams that all play today, and its really hard to see if the games at Derby and Nottingham are going to get rained off or not. They will see some rain, but they are right on the edge of the rain mass, and it is edging Northwards.

Can't see anyway that Surrey and Glamorgan will finish their game, looks like Surrey will miss out again. Will post again later about North group teams.

Derby, Nottingham and Surrey all start, and raining at Yorks, and Lancs!

Good call Michael "ooozzzie" Fish.

Well we will see smart arse.

[wizardoffire]

Right trying to work out this weather and what will happen. Seems that the North group is between 3 or 4 teams that all play today, and its really hard to see if the games at Derby and Nottingham are going to get rained off or not. They will see some rain, but they are right on the edge of the rain mass, and it is edging Northwards.

Can't see anyway that Surrey and Glamorgan will finish their game, looks like Surrey will miss out again. Will post again later about North group teams.

Derby, Nottingham and Surrey all start, and raining at Yorks, and Lancs!

Good call Michael "ooozzzie" Fish.

but will there be a hurricane?

[ooozzzie]

Its actually been the hardest day to be sure about for a long time. Surrey off now and won't get back on again. Manchester and Leeds are out of main mass of rain, but some quite heavy showers around, so hit and miss there. Light rain Derby 5pm and Heavier by 6pm, and a bit later in Nottingham, same result when they come off that will be that. Its taken a while to show all of this, as I only get 3 hours of future rain pattern showing. Think now all 5 games will be no result. Or if very lucky a 10 over duckworth lewis. But that wasn't clear earlier. Horrible day.