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Liverpool defensive double up still worth it?

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pokeface
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Liverpool defensive double up still worth it?

Post by pokeface » 05 Feb 2019, 01:59

Went for a Liverpool defensive double up a couple of weeks ago (VVD/Robertson) just about the time they decided to stop keeping cleansheets. Do we still think it’s worth it?

Liverpool starting to look nervous defensively and are always conceding. Also offensively they are looking burned out, so when previously they’d be 2-3 goals up, teams would often give up, now that isn’t happening I feel the defensive double up just isn’t worth it anymore.

Thoughts appreciated.

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Zimmerman
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Re: Liverpool defensive double up still worth it?

Post by Zimmerman » 05 Feb 2019, 07:56

1, 1, 3, 0 (goals conceded in their last four)

Bournemouth (h), United (a), Watford (h), Everton (a) and Burnley (h) the next five. I think it’s worth sitting tight.

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Stevieste
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Re: Liverpool defensive double up still worth it?

Post by Stevieste » 05 Feb 2019, 14:52

Zimmerman wrote:
05 Feb 2019, 07:56
1, 1, 3, 0 (goals conceded in their last four)

Bournemouth (h), United (a), Watford (h), Everton (a) and Burnley (h) the next five. I think it’s worth sitting tight.
Agreed 👌🏻

Finisher1
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Re: Liverpool defensive double up still worth it?

Post by Finisher1 » 05 Feb 2019, 17:19

pokeface wrote:
05 Feb 2019, 01:59
Went for a Liverpool defensive double up a couple of weeks ago (VVD/Robertson) just about the time they decided to stop keeping cleansheets. Do we still think it’s worth it?

Liverpool starting to look nervous defensively and are always conceding. Also offensively they are looking burned out, so when previously they’d be 2-3 goals up, teams would often give up, now that isn’t happening I feel the defensive double up just isn’t worth it anymore.

Thoughts appreciated.
Nothing has changed really. Their defensive quality has been the same throughout the season. They were a little lucky when they kept a clean sheet in almost every match, they could have easily conceded a fair few goals more in which case people would have said "they look defensively nervous" instead of "Liverpool defensive double up is a must". The truth lies somewhere between those two arguments.

So in the early season they were a bit lucky and now they are a bit unlucky. Nothing has changed really in terms of their defensive capability. I think they are still the best defence in the league and I think they will keep most clean sheets in the remaining games, but not even nearly in every match. Sometimes they keep a clean sheet in three consecutive matches and sometimes they concede in three consecutive matches.

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Re: Liverpool defensive double up still worth it?

Post by murf » 05 Feb 2019, 17:28

As a Liverpool fan who has watched all the TV games in recent weeks, I thoroughly disagree! They haven't looked as composed and van Dijk's influence isn't there. I blame the shake ups (injury forced changes) and discontinuity rather than individuals - maybe a bit of pressure too. Also the attack isn't working so more pressure is on the defence so they make more errors or get beaten fair and square more often.
Still a damn good unit just not quite at its peak or as reliable.

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Re: Liverpool defensive double up still worth it?

Post by Finisher1 » 05 Feb 2019, 17:48

murf wrote:
05 Feb 2019, 17:28
As a Liverpool fan who has watched all the TV games in recent weeks, I thoroughly disagree! They haven't looked as composed and van Dijk's influence isn't there. I blame the shake ups (injury forced changes) and discontinuity rather than individuals - maybe a bit of pressure too. Also the attack isn't working so more pressure is on the defence so they make more errors or get beaten fair and square more often.
Still a damn good unit just not quite at its peak or as reliable.
It's a fair opinion and perhaps a couple of recent matches have not been their defensive prime, but I don't think they have been defensively nervous either.

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Re: Liverpool defensive double up still worth it?

Post by dino1980 » 05 Feb 2019, 19:50

I agree with Finisher’s sentiments. In 2019 (so five matches) they’ve the third best xGA. Eye test wise they haven’t looked brilliant against Leicester, West Ham and Palace. Palace and Leicester look like same old Liverpool - in terms of dominance - but against West Ham they were out shot (13 vs 11). Without trawling through the numbers I can only guesstimate that it’s a very rare occurance this season and possibly the only time that’s happend against non top six opponents.

Hopefully a blip, but worth monitoring. Particular if you have the VVD and Robertson double up like I have, mostly due to cost and value.

In terms of worth it, I guess it depends on your longer term strategy and how you’re building towards Gw31. For me, I think the only way i remove one of VVD or Robbo is for TAA to save some money.

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Re: Liverpool defensive double up still worth it?

Post by Kuchi » 06 Feb 2019, 09:53

On a related note is Matip now first choice to partner VVD?

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Ruth_NZ
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Re: Liverpool defensive double up still worth it?

Post by Ruth_NZ » 06 Feb 2019, 10:00

Kuchi wrote: On a related note is Matip now first choice to partner VVD?
Will probably be Lovren, won't it?

Would be nice if that were clarified anyway, because I will probably get a 2nd Liverpool defender in due course and Lovren would be perfect if a sure starter. Otherwise it would have to be VVD.

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Re: Liverpool defensive double up still worth it?

Post by murf » 06 Feb 2019, 11:53

Ruth_NZ wrote:
06 Feb 2019, 10:00
Kuchi wrote: On a related note is Matip now first choice to partner VVD?
Will probably be Lovren, won't it?

Would be nice if that were clarified anyway, because I will probably get a 2nd Liverpool defender in due course and Lovren would be perfect if a sure starter. Otherwise it would have to be VVD.
Matip is currently the only choice. Lovren did get as far as the bench last week (and noticeably not straight into the team) but has had another setback. I'd expect he's get back in as first choice when 100% fit but who knows - Klopp may not want to cause any more upheaval and there are no more domestic cup games for him to get match practice. I wouldn't buy either (yet) - TAA may well get back before the Lovren position is clear.

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Re: Liverpool defensive double up still worth it?

Post by Kuchi » 06 Feb 2019, 12:16

Any of the three would be great value. Obviously the tricky part is which one. TAA seems the safest but not sure when he will actually be back.

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Re: Liverpool defensive double up still worth it?

Post by murf » 06 Feb 2019, 12:25

Kuchi wrote:
06 Feb 2019, 12:16
TAA seems the safest but not sure when he will actually be back.
Klopp before Monday's game: "He is really close and I hope he is in full training next week, but not for Monday.”

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Ruth_NZ
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Re: Liverpool defensive double up still worth it?

Post by Ruth_NZ » 06 Feb 2019, 12:26

I already have TAA and fully intend to keep him. He'll be back soon enough, maybe even this weekend. I'm not rushing to add a 2nd Liverpool defender - will be GW28 earliest - hence the Lovren comments.

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Re: Liverpool defensive double up still worth it?

Post by raoul » 06 Feb 2019, 12:34

Since losing Gomez, Liverpool have conceded 001001220311. So for 6 games they seemed ok without him.

The first "2" that appears in that sequence is losing to Man City. The start of a blip?

Of course injuries have built up. But Liverpool have waited a long time for the title and to me they certainly do look a bit nervy, both going forward and at the back.

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Re: Liverpool defensive double up still worth it?

Post by Zimmerman » 06 Feb 2019, 13:15

During those 12 games there have been 8 different defences used.

Matip/Milner x 3
Matip/Trent
Matip/Henderson
Lovren/Clyne
Lovren/Milner
Lovren/Trent x 3
Full on reserves
Fabinho/Trent

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raoul
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Re: Liverpool defensive double up still worth it?

Post by raoul » 06 Feb 2019, 13:30

Zimmerman wrote:
06 Feb 2019, 13:15
During those 12 games there have been 8 different defences used.

Matip/Milner x 3
Matip/Trent
Matip/Henderson
Lovren/Clyne
Lovren/Milner
Lovren/Trent x 3
Full on reserves
Fabinho/Trent
so we agree on the injuries being one factor.

Are you saying that's it, and a team that once dominated the title but have not won it for many years are not entitled to look over their shoulder a bit?

Nervousness is entirely natural in this situation. Both Palace and West Ham had a decent go at Liverpool and some cracks appeared.

I am not suggesting a meltdown or anything even close. But a smidgeon of worry can easily lead to an extra goal or two being conceded, and that is all it takes.

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Re: Liverpool defensive double up still worth it?

Post by Joccki_10 » 06 Feb 2019, 14:01

Side note: the fact that TAA still hasn’t dropped in price is the biggest joke in the FPL pricing system this season.

Finisher1
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Re: Liverpool defensive double up still worth it?

Post by Finisher1 » 06 Feb 2019, 14:16

Joccki_10 wrote:
06 Feb 2019, 14:01
Side note: the fact that TAA still hasn’t dropped in price is the biggest joke in the FPL pricing system this season.
What? Are you suggesting it's kind of bizarre he has not dropped a single time despite his ownership slumping from 1,406,103 to 803,039 (so 42.9%)? It's totally legit if you ask FPL Towers!

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Zimmerman
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Re: Liverpool defensive double up still worth it?

Post by Zimmerman » 06 Feb 2019, 15:07

raoul wrote:
06 Feb 2019, 13:30
Zimmerman wrote:
06 Feb 2019, 13:15
During those 12 games there have been 8 different defences used.

Matip/Milner x 3
Matip/Trent
Matip/Henderson
Lovren/Clyne
Lovren/Milner
Lovren/Trent x 3
Full on reserves
Fabinho/Trent
so we agree on the injuries being one factor.

Are you saying that's it, and a team that once dominated the title but have not won it for many years are not entitled to look over their shoulder a bit?

Nervousness is entirely natural in this situation. Both Palace and West Ham had a decent go at Liverpool and some cracks appeared.

I am not suggesting a meltdown or anything even close. But a smidgeon of worry can easily lead to an extra goal or two being conceded, and that is all it takes.
I think it’s a combination
Being 4 players short of their optimum team
Having weak links
Having players a bit off the boil


Interestingly, Liverpool have taken 17/24 points and City 15/24.

But Liverpool are having a wobble and/or feeling the pressure - whereas City are the purring machine. Not putting words in to Raols mouth... just paraphrasing the general perception.

It hasn’t been vintage the last two fixtures (but as shown by City, every team goes through good and bad periods in a season.

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raoul
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Re: Liverpool defensive double up still worth it?

Post by raoul » 06 Feb 2019, 15:28

indeed. If there was no wobble, it would almost be more nerve-wracking knowing one was coming.

An away draw is hardly a disaster, and West Ham looked up for it. Next game will be a good indicator - Bournemouth are pants away so anything less than a comfortable home win would be concerning. I'd certainly agree that holding onto Liverpool defenders makes sense.

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Re: Liverpool defensive double up still worth it?

Post by Mo Bot » 06 Feb 2019, 19:25

I’m taking the cheap defender option at the moment but TAA is staying just now as I have other priorities to deal with.

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