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CYKI mini league entry deadline

A forum for discussion on Can You Kick It's (CYKI) Fantasy Football game

Should the FISO CKYI mini league publish entry details like other FISO leagues

No, It's a special case.
4
22%
Yes, it should be just like the other mini leagues
14
78%
 
Total votes: 18

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sorbiegunner
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CYKI mini league entry deadline

Post by sorbiegunner » 16 Aug 2008, 22:32

A poll as requested on the mini league thread
link to thread

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Re: CYKI mini league entry deadline

Post by slarty » 16 Aug 2008, 22:52

Before I vote can someone explain, "The top 5 teams in the best league" (didn't pay much attention to this one last year so excuse the ignorance)

Is this "best league" based on the league as a whole, or just on the average of the Top 5 teams in that league? Obviously if it's the former then it's open to sabotage and the code shouldn't be published, if the latter, no problem.

There are also the mysterious extra prizes to consider, but I think it's unlikely they'll be awarded to an entire league or Amazon'll go bust if a big league wins one of them :D

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Re: CYKI mini league entry deadline

Post by sorbiegunner » 16 Aug 2008, 22:58

slarty wrote:Before I vote can someone explain, "The top 5 teams in the best league" (didn't pay much attention to this one last year so excuse the ignorance)

Is this "best league" based on the league as a whole, or just on the average of the Top 5 teams in that league? Obviously if it's the former then it's open to sabotage and the code shouldn't be published, if the latter, no problem.

There are also the mysterious extra prizes to consider, but I think it's unlikely they'll be awarded to an entire league or Amazon'll go bust if a big league wins one of them :D
Only the top 5 teams are counted for the average score which determines the position in the league of leagues and who get's the prizes.

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Re: CYKI mini league entry deadline

Post by slarty » 16 Aug 2008, 23:20

Cheers.

Can't see the problem then. The purpose of calling these leagues FISO whatever is to advertise this forum, and if someone googles FISO then it's working. Admittedly, I wouldn't be chuffed to lose 5th place to a late incomer, but from my reading of the other thread that seems to have happened to some people last year as well.

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Re: CYKI mini league entry deadline

Post by sorbiegunner » 16 Aug 2008, 23:24

slarty wrote:Cheers.

Can't see the problem then. The purpose of calling these leagues FISO whatever is to advertise this forum, and if someone googles FISO then it's working. Admittedly, I wouldn't be chuffed to lose 5th place to a late incomer, but from my reading of the other thread that seems to have happened to some people last year as well.
All the mini league prizes are monthly prizes, there's no big end of season prize to nip and steal.

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Re: CYKI mini league entry deadline

Post by Vid » 17 Aug 2008, 02:30

I can't see any reason for the ML not to be open or to have a entry deadline. Is there a facility for blocking entries in the last week of a month?

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Re: CYKI mini league entry deadline

Post by RomynPG » 17 Aug 2008, 16:49

Vid wrote:Is there a facility for blocking entries in the last week of a month?
If the leagues work the same as they do in FPL (which I assume they do as they're both ISM games) then you can lock/unlock a league at any time. Good idea Vid.

Also, to ease admin, the code could be sent to multiple recipients all at once by just pasting a list of names into the To box of a pm. Just have one of those copy-and-add-your-name-to-the-list type things for new applicantions.

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Re: CYKI mini league entry deadline

Post by Flyman » 17 Aug 2008, 17:02

So, it looks like the best solution is to have the code freely available, but to accept new entrants into the league at the start of each month only, locking the league at other times?

That will limit admin to one day per 'prize month' and protect the Monthly League position of existing members.

Anyone applying to join 'mid-month' waits until the end of that game-month before coming in.

Sounds fine to me.

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Re: CYKI mini league entry deadline

Post by RomynPG » 17 Aug 2008, 18:06

Flyman wrote:So, it looks like the best solution is to have the code freely available, but to accept new entrants into the league at the start of each month only, locking the league at other times?

That will limit admin to one day per 'prize month' and protect the Monthly League position of existing members.

Anyone applying to join 'mid-month' waits until the end of that game-month before coming in.

Sounds fine to me.
Having the league code freely available and applying to join are mutally exclusive aren't they? - you meant wanting to join I assume ?.

The FPL main league code is open and has a Who-are-You (as does this one) and that seems to be working really well in bringing out members - even if it's for just 1 post. Why not base this on the same T&Cs but with the exception of the temporary locks?

Just thoughts/opinions

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Re: CYKI mini league entry deadline

Post by Flyman » 17 Aug 2008, 18:29

RomynPG wrote: Having the league code freely available and applying to join are mutally exclusive aren't they? - you meant wanting to join I assume ?.

The FPL main league code is open and has a Who-are-You (as does this one) and that seems to be working really well in bringing out members - even if it's for just 1 post. Why not base this on the same T&Cs but with the exception of the temporary locks?

Just thoughts/opinions
I don't think so ..... :?
You get the code from the thread then enter your team in the league - that's what I'm calling 'applying to join'.
Then, at the end of every game month, all those who have applied are confirmed by the league's admin.

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Re: CYKI mini league entry deadline

Post by reds363 » 17 Aug 2008, 23:21

Unlike some other games, I don't think CYKI has that step of the admin having to confirm each new entry. I think once someone's entered the code they're straight into the league. :?


IMO the league code should be published on the forum like any other FF game on FISO. We could set up an FPL-like "declare yourself or risk expulsion" rule if we want.

Agree that closing the league to new entries for the last week of each month is probably a good idea though (with monthly prizes, and the code freely available, and no apparent YTM-like rule preventing latecomers to a superleague sharing in that league's monthly prize).

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Re: CYKI mini league entry deadline

Post by beglee » 18 Aug 2008, 12:21

reds363 wrote:Unlike some other games, I don't think CYKI has that step of the admin having to confirm each new entry. I think once someone's entered the code they're straight into the league. :?
I believe the team goes into the league after the next points update

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Re: CYKI mini league entry deadline

Post by Spencer4 » 18 Aug 2008, 12:27

Will be a bit daft to be in the top 5 of the mini-league and then be overtaken by a non-fiso johnny-come-lately just entering to get the prize.

There does need to be some supervision I think.

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Re: CYKI mini league entry deadline

Post by albanwell » 19 Aug 2008, 23:13

Refuse to answer on the basis that the comments after the yes and no are completely designed to influence the voter.

If you're going to do a genuine poll, then at least have the decency to not push your own agenda wth the options.

My opinion, however, is that there should be one rule for all forms of fantasy gaming and if the general practice is disclosure of official superleague passwords openly in the forums then that should be the case for all the official superleagues.

That said I feel sympathy for DD who simply volunteered to admin the game again and then set similar rules to the previous year. The tone of some of the posts in this forum have been dissappointing to say the least.

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Re: CYKI mini league entry deadline

Post by DixieDean » 19 Aug 2008, 23:25

Thank you.

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Re: CYKI mini league entry deadline

Post by Spencer4 » 20 Aug 2008, 07:00

Looks like the general concensus is for the league to be open to all, Fiso member or not, which is fine if that's what people want (though I must say, I don't think people actually understand the implications of this).

So for CYKI I'd ike to have a league for those who actually contribute to the Forum, even lurkers who are part of the general community.

I think Dixie is an advocate of this kind of league and I'd be happy to run it.

I have set up a new Fiso League, named Fiso Posters League and have left the Fiso League (I was in 3rd place btw :P )

Anyone wanting to join me please let me know, I'll start a new thread later this morning.

No sweat with this, I just think a Fiso League needs monitoring so want to be part of one that is.

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Re: CYKI mini league entry deadline

Post by McBear » 20 Aug 2008, 07:08

I would be interested in joining your league.

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Re: CYKI mini league entry deadline

Post by sorbiegunner » 20 Aug 2008, 11:00

Spencer4 wrote:Looks like the general concensus is for the league to be open to all, Fiso member or not, which is fine if that's what people want (though I must say, I don't think people actually understand the implications of this).

So for CYKI I'd ike to have a league for those who actually contribute to the Forum, even lurkers who are part of the general community.

I think Dixie is an advocate of this kind of league and I'd be happy to run it.

I have set up a new Fiso League, named Fiso Posters League and have left the Fiso League (I was in 3rd place btw :P )

Anyone wanting to join me please let me know, I'll start a new thread later this morning.

No sweat with this, I just think a Fiso League needs monitoring so want to be part of one that is.
I have looked through the relevant threads once again and I can find no post stating that any poster is in favour of non members joining the Fiso mini league, yet you have formed the view that that is the general consensus.
For a particular view to the the general consensus it needs the majority of people concerned to hold that view, as no one has voiced that view, I'm baffled as to how you have seen it as the general consensus.

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Re: CYKI mini league entry deadline

Post by DixieDean » 20 Aug 2008, 11:12

sorbiegunner wrote:
Spencer4 wrote:Looks like the general concensus is for the league to be open to all, Fiso member or not, which is fine if that's what people want (though I must say, I don't think people actually understand the implications of this).

So for CYKI I'd ike to have a league for those who actually contribute to the Forum, even lurkers who are part of the general community.

I think Dixie is an advocate of this kind of league and I'd be happy to run it.

I have set up a new Fiso League, named Fiso Posters League and have left the Fiso League (I was in 3rd place btw :P )

Anyone wanting to join me please let me know, I'll start a new thread later this morning.

No sweat with this, I just think a Fiso League needs monitoring so want to be part of one that is.
I have looked through the relevant threads once again and I can find no post stating that any poster is in favour of non members joining the Fiso mini league, yet you have formed the view that that is the general consensus.
For a particular view to the the general consensus it needs the majority of people concerned to hold that view, as no one has voiced that view, I'm baffled as to how you have seen it as the general consensus.

What he's saying is that when or if you publish the code on here - Which I'm presuming is the consensus (do you agree?) - Then as explained by me on numerous occaisions, you will end up with non-FISO members in it. Guaranteed.

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Re: CYKI mini league entry deadline

Post by sorbiegunner » 20 Aug 2008, 11:23

DixieDean wrote:
sorbiegunner wrote:
Spencer4 wrote:Looks like the general concensus is for the league to be open to all, Fiso member or not, which is fine if that's what people want (though I must say, I don't think people actually understand the implications of this).

So for CYKI I'd ike to have a league for those who actually contribute to the Forum, even lurkers who are part of the general community.

I think Dixie is an advocate of this kind of league and I'd be happy to run it.

I have set up a new Fiso League, named Fiso Posters League and have left the Fiso League (I was in 3rd place btw :P )

Anyone wanting to join me please let me know, I'll start a new thread later this morning.

No sweat with this, I just think a Fiso League needs monitoring so want to be part of one that is.
I have looked through the relevant threads once again and I can find no post stating that any poster is in favour of non members joining the Fiso mini league, yet you have formed the view that that is the general consensus.
For a particular view to the the general consensus it needs the majority of people concerned to hold that view, as no one has voiced that view, I'm baffled as to how you have seen it as the general consensus.

What he's saying is that when or if you publish the code on here - Which I'm presuming is the consensus (do you agree?) - Then as explained by me on numerous occaisions, you will end up with non-FISO members in it. Guaranteed.
Then, for the sake of consistency, Spencer4 will be setting up new leagues for all competitions in which the official Fiso mini league is similarly at risk of having non-FISO members in it, or at least be trying to get others to help him set up rival leagues in those comps (share the workload).
There is a thread for members to announce who they are so it shouldn't be to difficult to ensure the mini league only contains FISO members, where is this non-Fiso members welcome thing coming from, who is advocating it?

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Re: CYKI mini league entry deadline

Post by DixieDean » 20 Aug 2008, 11:45

sorbiegunner wrote:...where is this non-Fiso members welcome thing coming from, who is advocating it?
No-one as far as I've read but what you keep ignoring is that there is a risk it will happen. In fact I can prove it.

Publish the code on the relevant thread and I guarantee I can get a team in with out that person registering on here.

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Re: CYKI mini league entry deadline

Post by Flyman » 20 Aug 2008, 11:54

I, too, fail to see the 'general consensus' to keep it open.

On the one hand, we know of one poster who didn't vote because of the phrasing of the poll.
I didn't vote because, as we know, polls are unreliable and subject to multi-username abuse - I just don't think they are an appropriate method to decide by, I'm afraid. But, if forced, I'd vote for Option 1.

Of those who have posted their thoughts most seem to understand the particular problem this game has, and that a blanket rule for all FISO leagues to be wide open is potentially problematic in CYKI.

To be clear if anyone doesn't understand:
CYKI has prizes for the League of the Month, given to the top 5 managers in that League of Leagues. Last season FISO won that prize on 6 or 7 occasions!

Now, there is a difference between 5 regular FISOers playing well and winning that prize and in an unknown manager suddenly jumping in on the last gameweek, having garnered a high score himself that month.

1) He might well knock one of the 5 established league members out of the Top 5 in the FISO league, so robbing that member of his well-earned prize just to win a prize himself by piggy-backing on the good scores of the other FISO 4! That simply isn't fair.

2) Without this newbie's high score FISO League might be due to come in second that month. While the newbie's team would thus win prizes for 4 other FISOers it would rob 5 managers in some other league of their rightful prize.

Should we bothered by that? Well, it's up to your own sense of morality - but I don't like the thought of it. It's unsportsmanlike and tacitly allowing this smacks of 'pulling in a ringer' just to win. It could create ill-will towards us. I'd rather FISO held a reputation for fair play than skullduggery, myself.

Therefore, I'd like to see an open league where an administrator removes any newcomers in the final week of any given prize month.

I'd really rather that than see factionalism spread in CYKI. :)

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Re: CYKI mini league entry deadline

Post by sorbiegunner » 20 Aug 2008, 11:58

DixieDean wrote:
sorbiegunner wrote:...where is this non-Fiso members welcome thing coming from, who is advocating it?
No-one as far as I've read but what you keep ignoring is that there is a risk it will happen. In fact I can prove it.

Publish the code on the relevant thread and I guarantee I can get a team in with out that person registering on here.
But you can't keep it in the mini league if you're not a FISO-member because you will be spotted and booted.
What you keep ignoring is that there is a risk it will happen in every other FISO mini league, so are members only comps being set up in all other comps, and if not why not.
It's clearly no longer about the structure of the game or the way in which prizes are awarded, it is now a wish to have a league for those who actually contribute to the Forum
, that's what was given as the reason for forming this new members only league (as opposed to the existing members only league) so it, surely applies across the board.

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Re: CYKI mini league entry deadline

Post by sorbiegunner » 20 Aug 2008, 12:07

Flyman wrote:I, too, fail to see the 'general consensus' to keep it open.

On the one hand, we know of one poster who didn't vote because of the phrasing of the poll.
I didn't vote because, as we know, polls are unreliable and subject to multi-username abuse - I just don't think they are an appropriate method to decide by, I'm afraid. But, if forced, I'd vote for Option 1.

Of those who have posted their thoughts most seem to understand the particular problem this game has, and that a blanket rule for all FISO leagues to be wide open is potentially problematic in CYKI.

To be clear if anyone doesn't understand:
CYKI has prizes for the League of the Month, given to the top 5 managers in that League of Leagues. Last season FISO won that prize on 6 or 7 occasions!

Now, there is a difference between 5 regular FISOers playing well and winning that prize and in an unknown manager suddenly jumping in on the last gameweek, having garnered a high score himself that month.

1) He might well knock one of the 5 established league members out of the Top 5 in the FISO league, so robbing that member of his well-earned prize just to win a prize himself by piggy-backing on the good scores of the other FISO 4! That simply isn't fair.

2) Without this newbie's high score FISO League might be due to come in second that month. While the newbie's team would thus win prizes for 4 other FISOers it would rob 5 managers in some other league of their rightful prize.

Should we bothered by that? Well, it's up to your own sense of morality - but I don't like the thought of it. It's unsportsmanlike and tacitly allowing this smacks of 'pulling in a ringer' just to win. It could create ill-will towards us. I'd rather FISO held a reputation for fair play than skullduggery, myself.

Therefore, I'd like to see an open league where an administrator removes any newcomers in the final week of any given prize month.

I'd really rather that than see factionalism spread in CYKI. :)
We could make a FISO mini league by law that states teams will only be eligible for prizes if they were in the mini league at the start of the relevant prize period. Teams can join at any time during the prize period but if they are in a top 5 position towards the end of a prize period the team will be booted to ensure that the prizes will only go to teams who were in at the start of the period.
That shouldn't be too complicated.

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Re: CYKI mini league entry deadline

Post by DixieDean » 20 Aug 2008, 12:11

sorbiegunner wrote:What you keep ignoring is that there is a risk it will happen in every other FISO mini league, so are members only comps being set up in all other comps, and if not why not.
I'm not ignoring that issue... in fact I brought it up the other day on the other thread and you ignored my point as did Vid. I think it is a wider problem than just CYKI. I could easily get a team into the FISO TFF league without registering for instance and there's no-one checking that one for unknown names. All I need is Google and I'm in!!!

The potential problem is FISOwide basically.

And to state my position again... Keeping the codes secret is not necessarily the best way to move forward and unfortunately I don't have a definitive solution that I could put forward for all FISO leagues. All I can guarantee is that as the new admin of the soon to be public CYKI league you'll be working overtime filtering out people that shouldn't be there.

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Re: CYKI mini league entry deadline

Post by DixieDean » 20 Aug 2008, 12:25

sorbiegunner wrote:We could make a FISO mini league by law that states teams will only be eligible for prizes if they were in the mini league at the start of the relevant prize period. Teams can join at any time during the prize period but if they are in a top 5 position towards the end of a prize period the team will be booted to ensure that the prizes will only go to teams who were in at the start of the period.
That shouldn't be too complicated.
So what happens to the booted person after that? Are they politely asked to come back and enter at a later date?

I suppose it's workable but you'll have a lot of work on your hands.


I still think a minimum postcount is the way forward fwiw.

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Re: CYKI mini league entry deadline

Post by Spencer4 » 20 Aug 2008, 12:28

I think the point is Dixie, one camp actually don't mind non-fisoers in the league.

On the TFF point, I don't think it matters in there because, one, there's no intermediate prizes and two, anyone who gets to the top 5 in that league in a serious player rather than a lucky johnny-come-lately. And there's an early deadline.

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Re: CYKI mini league entry deadline

Post by Spencer4 » 20 Aug 2008, 12:31

The way I'm going to run the 'Posters' CYKI league is that I'm letting anyone in, whether they are newbies or not. All they have to do is post on the thread.

Once someone posts, they are part of the Forum and it'll encourage them to post more and become part of the fiso machine. This won't happen to somone who just guesses the mini-league number or finds it through Googling.

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Re: CYKI mini league entry deadline

Post by DixieDean » 20 Aug 2008, 12:33

Spencer4 wrote:I think the point is Dixie, one camp actually don't mind non-fisoers in the league.

On the TFF point, I don't think it matters in there because, one, there's no intermediate prizes and two, anyone who gets to the top 5 in that league in a serious player rather than a lucky johnny-come-lately. And there's an early deadline.
Fair points. I used TFF as a for instance and I don't know the prize structures of other comps. So maybe this issue is only for games that have intermedeate league prizes.

If so... that indeed does make CYKI a special case (reference to the poll at the top of this thread)... :wink:

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Re: CYKI mini league entry deadline

Post by sorbiegunner » 20 Aug 2008, 12:37

Spencer4 wrote:I think the point is Dixie, one camp actually don't mind non-fisoers in the league.

On the TFF point, I don't think it matters in there because, one, there's no intermediate prizes and two, anyone who gets to the top 5 in that league in a serious player rather than a lucky johnny-come-lately. And there's an early deadline.
Who is in this camp? I, for one think that fiso mini leagues should be for fiso members and as I said before I can't recall anyone saying otherwise. This non fiso members welcome thing is all in your head as far as I can see, but feel free to show me quotes of fiso members stating otherwise.
Spencer4 wrote:The way I'm going to run the 'Posters' CYKI league is that I'm letting anyone in, whether they are newbies or not. All they have to do is post on the thread......
Post on the thread and they're in, right in the last week of the prize period.

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