Currently debating in parliment. 70 backbenchers revolting. Options will be a) Stay in b) Leave c) renegotiation.
I can't see it passing through parliment and i think its the wrong time for such a decision due to economic problems. If we leave, sheer chaos would ensue in europe.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/hi/house_of_commons/newsid_9434000/9434799.stm

Not going to happen. All parties scared of what we want.

I can't stand the idea of a referendum, no matter the subject. Makes me think of the current Republican battle in the US - the candidates are clambering over themselves to come up with the most simplistic and easy to understand tax proposals just so the public can comprehend it. The Sun etc. have far too large a readership (they like what they like, hate what they hate and are also easily led) for the general population to make a decision based on all the facts rather than lazy headlines.

If the comments on here are anything to go by it wouldn't be hard to see a vast number of people believing that the Europeans want all our fruit to be perfectly formed and ban the phrase "black coffee". The actual pros and cons of the economic side of things would barely get a look in.

I agree, and is why the Tea Party seems so popular as they are thick people proclaiming Taxes Bad, America Good.........

Hopefully there will never be a referendum. We vote in MP's and have regular elections to ensure they carry out the wishes of the electorate. If they do not then they do not get re-elected. If we have referendums then why bother having elected government. The Daily Fail and it's rabid readers are anti EU but I'd be surprised if as many as 5% of it's readership has a clue what the EU does based on the online comments on it's website.

Since when has an MP done what his/her electorate want?

Tonight they were told to do what their boss wanted or effectively lose their career.

Makes a change from doing what the highest bidder wants them to do

Sadly the British electorate are not bright enough to vote in a referendum as they do not know what they are voting for or against.
Most shouldn't really be allowed to vote in elections unless they can prove they are aware of the party policies.

No chance, but then the Parties only think about those of electorate likely to change votes who live in a handful of constituencies, so why should they bother? (Especially now X Factor has started again )

Tonight's vote is pointless anyway as there will be no referendum even if MP's vote for one...........which they won't.

edit: defeated 483-111

True blahblah

The French Presidents mother is Greek. Leave the EU NOW!

This reminds me of the farcical Irish referendum a couple of years ago, when they voted not to accept the latest EU constitution. This wasn't the result that the politicians wanted, so they called the referendum again, and this time got a yes vote. We don't even get a chance to vote. Worse than that, MPs from all main parites were subject to 3-line whips on this vote so, unless they were prepared to commit career suicide, effectively they didn't get a chance to vote either. We like to think we live in a democracy but we're kidding ourselves.

I'm beginning to come round full circle to the idea that perhaps we really should be part of a 'new Eurozone' in which only actual fiscally responsible countries are participants. We seem to all too easily forget that we are the second biggest economy in Europe and us and the Germans could, together, largely dictate how it's managed.

I say 'new' because the current Euro has obviously been constructed on very poor entry criteria - basical political decisions for an economic programme. I don't think a British led Euro would have allowed countries like Greece in.

It concerns me that if, as a continent, we don't get our house in order, the Chinese and Indians will overtake us. A two-speed Europe, with fiscal responsibility and steady growth at it's heart, with much tighter finance industry regulation, it's IMO the long-term solution to the growing threat from the East.

Bloody hell it must be important, even Dr Who has got involved



Wonder how many names are actually from this planet ?

I heard someone on the radio yesterday asking, what would happen if there was a referendum asking if we wanted to pay taxes or not?

Some things can't be left to the people to decide.

Whilst I'm not sure UK/English involvement would have prevented the current crisis this statement is what I was referring to last night. I don't think this side of things would be discussed enough because a) it's relatively boring and b) it's far more important in the long run than the petty issues about legal changes and therefore would not appear on the tabloid radar.

I must say I'm pleasantly surprised with the general vibe of this thread so far - I feared it would very much go the other way.

The photo above was just to wind up DrBunker, I am actually pro Europe, but I think that we have to look at the two issues separately 1. The Referendum Question and 2. Quitting the EU.

I personally am a great Europhile and I worked and lived in Germany and Holland from 1969 to 1990. In the early years before we joined the Common Market I always had to have a Visa issued by the German Consulate in Edinburgh and there were certain travel restrictions in place one of them being that you couldn't take more than £10 in British Currency out of the UK when travelling abroad. This was all a bit of a pain in the a*se at the time. (remember that in those days there were no such things as Credit Cards or ATM's) and I was really glad when the UK joined the Common Market as it made life so much easier for me.

Herein lies the problem, the 'Common Market' was basically a free trade union of countries which has since developed into the European Union, a political and economic union of states. This was never meant to happen, and nobody was ever given a say in it. It was like the dripping tap effect, bit by bit our parliamentary powers were stripped away and Brussels started pulling the strings. I am all for Europe, but I am also very much for giving the people a say on this.

Politicians have gone back on their word on a referendum on numerous occasions, they use it as a party political instrument on the lead up to elections, but once elected quickly forget all about it. Remember Gordon Brown promising a referendum on the signing of the European Constitution, but when they changed it's name to 'The Treaty of Europe' he said that it didn't count anymore and no referendum was forthcoming. David Cameron said that if elected he would hold a referendum on the Treaty of Europe, unless it was ratified before he took up office (which he knew it would be) so once again all of the referendum bluster came to nothing.

I am all for Europe, but I'm also all for a referendum on Europe and I fear that the parties will pay the price at the next European Elections as I can see Britain being represented by a vast majority of UKIP MEP's in Brussels.

UKIP will amount to nothing and will fade away. Although their manifesto had other policies they are essentially a one policy party and appeal only to voters who can't quite bring themselves to vote BNP. It sounds hypocritical to have anti EU politicians standing for election to an European parliament they are against.
Cameron never promised a referendum on EU membership. As pa mentions he promised a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty IF it was not in force when he came to power. It did that at the end of 2009. I wonder if all the expats living in Spain will want to leave the EU once they realise they will no longer have the right to reside in Spain if we do leave the EU?

I have no evidence, but a gut instinct that UKIP are more likely to get dissident Tories and the BNP Labour one.


Sinn Fein refused to take their seats at Westminster, I think.


A Cameron promise has to be the most vacuous variety in history?


You mean the ones with their local English papers, local British pub seving roasts on a Sunday? The ones who make no effort to learn Spanish, such that their doctors have to speak English? You mean the same people that claim to have left here because of foreigners coming here, and not learning the language etc..

I think many disaffected Tories who are anti EU are like that soley because of immigration. If the BNP were not so blatantly racist then they would vote BNP.
Many have no idea what the EU is. A recent survey showed that 80% of the UK electorate did not know what the EU did and 59% did not want to learn more.



Yes. Those hypocritical people.

Lets go on contributing 65 billion a year. Money well spent. The NHS is struggling and students are facing 9K a year tuition fees, so makes sense to pay it to Europe

After all, if we were not in the EU, all major car plants would up sticks and desert our shores.

Thanks to Cameron for ignoring the majority. He's obviously a very clever man

In last night's ITV poll only 37% wanted to leave the EU. 26% did not have a view or didn't care.

I heard it was 70%.

This is also the second time an e-petition has polled over 100,000 votes. The first one was to bring back hanging.

What's the point ?? Obviously a group of public schoolboys know better than the people

We're all thick, obviously.

On the subject of Europe, how come France gets to ban the Burkha and we can't deport a terrorist ? The whole thing's a sham. A carve up between France and Germany. Just glad we never joined the Euro. Nicholas & Angela, dig deep people, the Greek, Itai's, Irish and Spanish need more of your cash Happy spending.....

The e-petitions are the biggest waste of time ever. They serve zero purpose.

Totally agree.

It's no wonder people are disenfranchised with politics.

PS Big up to those camping by St Paul's.

Not true. Of this new initiative, the debate on Hillsbrough was as one of the first two to get 100k.

For the big decisions, they are a waste of time, but the smaller laws are great for this. For example, making cyclists wear helmets or introduce pet/dog license. This is a good way to get it debated which otherwise might not be. And since it is not a big issue its not something the parties would be too worried about whipping their mps.

Fair point. Maybe the rules should change so major topics need a million to sign before MP's debate it