Tony Blair : A Journey

blahblah · **Posted:** 04 Sep 2010, 22:55

By the way I would have more confident of a Labour comeback under Livingstone, than any of the muppets likely to be the next leader.

Groomyd · **Posted:** 04 Sep 2010, 22:58

Billy Whiz wrote:

league table culture

This has saved a lot of lives in the NHS and rooted out a lot of sub standard clincicians who were able to hide in the doctor world of everyone closing ranks and protecting each other. Whistle blowers never worked again.

Now all of that info is public knowledge.

Furthermore the info is now in the public domain so that you as a patient can make your own informed decisions.

AkNotSpur · **Posted:** 04 Sep 2010, 23:06

blahblah wrote:

Kinnock did put Lab on the road to being electable, even if he wasn't electable himself.

I totally agree with that.

Believe it, or not, Neil Kinnock is (or at least was) a close friend of Alistair Campbell and actually when on holiday with the Blair and Campbell/Miller families when the 'New Labour' concept was being formed. Obviously, Kinnock didn't agree with some of the 'new' strategies but he did agree not to rock the boat and hinder Labour's chances of being elected again.

AKNel1 · **Posted:** 04 Sep 2010, 23:11

Groomyd wrote:

AKNel1 wrote:

I felt the Conservatives & Liberal Democrats had the best policies to get the country out of this mess

Adrain: they had totally conflicting policies!!!!!

I looked at the manifestoes of all the parties & cherry picked the policies which I liked best - the majority of the time it was either Tory or Lib Dem, I also felt that the Greens had some good ideas sprinkled into a crackpot manifesto. I was hopeful that the alliance would allow more of the policies I liked to come to the fore. This may or may not come to fruition - realistically it won't but Labour produced nothing that I could support in their policies.

Secondly the Tories didn't tell us they were going to do this "there will be no top down reorganisation of the NHS"!!!!!

When was the last time any Government came in to power and delivered all its promises or did not renege on particular policy.

There is NO need to pay off the debt at his pace. The Tories are simply using the situation to privatise the NHS an dother schemes under the thin guise of necessity.

The NHS will not be privatised, thats political suicide. Certain areas may become 100% privatised but I think that will be for the likes of 'non essential' plastic surgery, gastric bands etc - deciding what is or isn't essential is always going to be debatable though

If you have a large mortgage, would you try to pay it off in 5 years, when you have the option of 25, and leave your familly short of basics?

Why suffer for 25 years, if you can solve the problem in 5 ? (We live in an age where people expect a 'quick fix' - people want it sorted and they want it sorted quickly, so that they can go back to 'the easy life' I think the plan is to have severe cuts and savings made over 3 years, then soft soap the electorate with 2 or 3 'easy' budgets putting money in peoples pockets and the belief that things really are improving.

Broadsword · **Posted:** 04 Sep 2010, 23:19

AKNel1 wrote:

In my opinion, Socialism is an ideal that the working class want to believe in - until they become wealthy, when they abandon their beliefs in private whilst trying to maintain the public persona. We've all seen/met/know self made people who will stamp all over the people who helped make them to stay wealthy/powerful.

So true. Has always been a source of amusement people that aspire for a better life but think if someone's ahead of them then it's not fair and that person should be penalised. Socialism always fails because eventually you run out of other people's money.

It's pretty simple. Free market capitalism is the best path to prosperity. How can I say that after what's happened in the last 2 or 3 years I hear the socialists cry? Because of what's happened in the previous 2 or 3 hundred.

Capitalism has generated incredible wealth over several centuries allowing millions of people the world over to lift themselves out of poverty, and providing investment in industry, education as well as great advances in healthcare. It's capitalist countries that boast the highest life expectancies and standards of living across the globe.

If people want a better life for themselves they should get off their backsides and do something about it, and then be grateful that they live in a capitalist society that allows it, not sit around scrounging off the socialist state because they feel entitled or owed a living.

Billy Whiz · **Joined:** Thu Oct 13 2005 **Posts:** 5978

By league table culture I'm talking about using league tables as a blunt instrument to judge the quality of a service. If school A gets better results than school B does that necessarily make it a better school? Of course not, there are far too many other factors involved. And the same goes for hospitals and police forces. But New Labour were only interested in superficial outcomes, in what looked good on paper, they weren't interested in changing society.

AKNel1 · **Posted:** 04 Sep 2010, 23:28

Groomyd wrote:

blahblah wrote:

Kinnock did put Lab on the road to being electable, even if he wasn't electable himself.

That is very true

Isn't that exactly what Surprised was saying ?

Broadsword · **Posted:** 04 Sep 2010, 23:30

Groomyd wrote:

If you have a large mortgage, would you try to pay it off in 5 years, when you have the option of 25, and leave your familly short of basics?

Absolutely. You would save yourself a huge amount of money and be immeasurably better off for years to come. Have you never heard of compounding? If you made just one extra monthly payment a year off a 30yr mortgage you would pay it off 8 years early.

blahblah · **Posted:** 04 Sep 2010, 23:58

AKNel1 wrote:

Groomyd wrote:

blahblah wrote:

Kinnock did put Lab on the road to being electable, even if he wasn't electable himself.

That is very true

Isn't that exactly what Surprised was saying ?

Yep

Surprised · **Posted:** 05 Sep 2010, 05:23

AKNel1 wrote:

Groomyd wrote:

blahblah wrote:

Kinnock did put Lab on the road to being electable, even if he wasn't electable himself.

That is very true

Isn't that exactly what Surprised was saying ?

Yes

Groomy probably hasn't realised yet so he will be back to disagree with himself later

Groomyd · **Posted:** 05 Sep 2010, 09:34

AKNel1 wrote:

Isn't that exactly what Surprised was saying ?

No!

He was questioning Blair's impact and suggesting that all Blair had to do was slot in

My view is that what Blair did in changing the fundementals of the Labour party, especially clause 4 and the values of New Labour was infinitly more important.

Groomyd · **Posted:** 05 Sep 2010, 10:02

AKNel1 wrote:

Secondly the Tories didn't tell us they were going to do this "there will be no top down reorganisation of the NHS"!!!!!

When was the last time any Government came in to power and delivered all its promises or did not renege on particular policy.

There is a diffeence between delivering on all promises and outright lying! On this occasion in the first weeks of power over the NHS with a White Paper that was drawn up years before.

The NHS will not be privatised, thats political suicide.

It IS being privatised!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats what the White Paper says: GP Consortia will be social enterprises, NOT part of the NHS, hospitals will become foundation hospitals, and if they dont make money they will dissappear as being not cost effective.

If you have a large mortgage, would you try to pay it off in 5 years, when you have the option of 25, and leave your familly short of basics?

Why suffer for 25 years, if you can solve the problem in 5 ? (We live in an age where people expect a 'quick fix' - people want it sorted and they want it sorted quickly, so that they can go back to 'the easy life' I think the plan is to have severe cuts and savings made over 3 years, then soft soap the electorate with 2 or 3 'easy' budgets putting money in peoples pockets and the belief that things really are improving.

We can't solve the problem in 5, without having amassive impact on a lot of people's lives. If you think thats ok then you really area a Tory! Unforgivable when you have a choice surley? Furthermore it may well be counter producive in that with all the unemployment and hardhsip ahead we may see a double dip recession, increase in crime, benefits claims, shops going out of business and so on......................... you didn't set your mortgage for 5 years to see your familly suffer, you set it for affordable but payable.

[/quote]

murf · **Posted:** 07 Sep 2010, 20:36

Love the 'tags' on amazon:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Journey-Tony-Bl ... t_ep_dpi_1

(If you scroll to page 4 you'll see 'hello FISO' has one vote!)

bluenosey · **Posted:** 07 Sep 2010, 20:49

Love him or loathe him, it's very sad that the extremist anti war mob got their way by forcing Blair to cancel his London book signing. Probably a lot of people disagree with the policy on Iraq and Afghanistan but the views of the public may have been much different straight after 9/11. Obviously, it would have been a complete waste of resources (in the current climate) to police a book signing with such violent left wing extremists intent on causing violent disorder and Blair sensibly chose to cancel it, forcing people to miss out on getting a book signed by a thrice elected Prime Minister. So, if you don't like someone, just throw eggs, shoes and bottles :evil:

blahblah · **Posted:** 08 Sep 2010, 12:40

bluenoseyparker wrote:

Love him or loathe him, it's very sad that the extremist anti war mob got their way by forcing Blair to cancel his London book signing.

A lot of coffins, from his "actions"

GM · **Posted:** 08 Sep 2010, 13:39

Its giving him and his book a lot of News TV coverage

bluenosey · **Posted:** 08 Sep 2010, 13:49

blahblah wrote:

bluenoseyparker wrote:

Love him or loathe him, it's very sad that the extremist anti war mob got their way by forcing Blair to cancel his London book signing.

A lot of coffins, from his "actions"

Agreed, I'm not denying that. So your saying that the extremists were right ? I didn't see many extremists protesting when the Libyan bomber was released or old hooky in Finchley Park was preaching young Muslims to blow themselves up and wage war against the west. Quite a few coffins from their actions too. Blair just seems to be an easy target. Perhaps he should have done a Prescott :wink:

blahblah · **Posted:** 08 Sep 2010, 14:59

bluenoseyparker wrote:

blahblah wrote:

bluenoseyparker wrote:

Love him or loathe him, it's very sad that the extremist anti war mob got their way by forcing Blair to cancel his London book signing.

A lot of coffins, from his "actions"

Agreed, I'm not denying that. So your saying that the extremists were right ?
Apparently prisoners csan not write, and make money from their time in prison, so you could argue that he is gaining from his crimes :wink:

I didn't see many extremists protesting when the Libyan bomber was released
A lot of people think that he was framed :wink:

or old hooky in Finchley Park was preaching young Muslims to blow themselves up and wage war against the west.
Full of hot air, I would imagine.

Quite a few coffins from their actions too. Blair just seems to be an easy target. Perhaps he should have done a Prescott :wink:

Tony Blair : A Journey

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