The European Court of Human Rights

jimmy ching · **Joined:** Thu Oct 13 2005 **Posts:** 2672

murf wrote:

Romanian gypsies are EU citizens yet France (like it seems every EU country except us) can happily ignore EU laws when it chooses.

It's an old trick. Do the crime and pay the fine.
When the fine is less than the cost of the crime, many do it. Car Insurance for instance.

bluenosey · **Posted:** 19 Jan 2012, 14:27

DrBunker wrote:

bluenosey wrote:

Surprised wrote:

bluenosey wrote:

What happens if there is another wave of terrorsit attacks and he is found to been involved or incited any attacks ? Just what if ?

You can't lock people up or deport them because of what they might do in the future.

I know but do you build a zebra crossing first or wait for someone to be killed ?

It's depressing how often this sort of argument comes up. You really don't want to live in a country where you can be arrested, charged and deported based on a) torture b) 'evidence' that a secretive security organisation has on you and c) it's thought you might do something at some point in the future. As the poem says by the time they get to us there'll be no one left to defend us.

Why depressing ? A non UK national is not a UK worry. If Belgium feels so strongly they can look after him. Not our problem. End of. We can't prison the world (although no doubt the ECOHR would want us to)

bluenosey · **Posted:** 19 Jan 2012, 14:28

DrBunker wrote:

bluenosey wrote:

Surprised wrote:

bluenosey wrote:

What happens if there is another wave of terrorsit attacks and he is found to been involved or incited any attacks ? Just what if ?

You can't lock people up or deport them because of what they might do in the future.

I know but do you build a zebra crossing first or wait for someone to be killed ?

It's depressing how often this sort of argument comes up. You really don't want to live in a country where you can be arrested, charged and deported based on a) torture b) 'evidence' that a secretive security organisation has on you and c) it's thought you might do something at some point in the future. As the poem says by the time they get to us there'll be no one left to defend us.

Why depressing ? A non UK national is not a UK worry. If Belgium feels so strongly they can look after him. Not our problem. End of. We can't jail every prisoner in the world (although no doubt the ECOHR would want us to.

Surprised · **Posted:** 19 Jan 2012, 14:37

bluenosey wrote:

DrBunker wrote:

bluenosey wrote:

Surprised wrote:

bluenosey wrote:

What happens if there is another wave of terrorsit attacks and he is found to been involved or incited any attacks ? Just what if ?

You can't lock people up or deport them because of what they might do in the future.

I know but do you build a zebra crossing first or wait for someone to be killed ?

It's depressing how often this sort of argument comes up. You really don't want to live in a country where you can be arrested, charged and deported based on a) torture b) 'evidence' that a secretive security organisation has on you and c) it's thought you might do something at some point in the future. As the poem says by the time they get to us there'll be no one left to defend us.

Why depressing ? A non UK national is not a UK worry. If Belgium feels so strongly they can look after him. Not our problem. End of. We can't prison the world (although no doubt the ECOHR would want us to)

Why not go the whole hog and deport every foreign national as they may commit a crime in the future? They are unlikely to do so but why take the risk eh?
Or why not just deny anyone the right to live in a foreign country as they may commit a crime one day?

pa102aw · **Posted:** 19 Jan 2012, 14:41

blahblah wrote:

Any links?

I wouldn't be surprised if this was a myth perpetuated by our Anti-European press.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/296 ... Qatada-now

If you scroll down to the 5th paragraph from the bottom you will see what I quoted.

The ECHR has repeatedly put the most minuscule rights of terrorists over the most basic right to life of people who would be the victims of terrorism.

There are only two options open to us. Either Britain gets out of the ECHR altogether or we ignore its judgments when they are flagrantly wrong. Other countries such as France and Italy have shown that it is perfectly possible to ignore ECHR rulings. Neither are seriously regarded as barbarous.

They are nations that are serious about tackling barbarism. And when they have deported people despite the protestations of the ECHR what happens? It huffs and puffs but it has no power to stop a country ignoring its illogical and dangerous rulings.

blahblah · **Posted:** 19 Jan 2012, 14:42

But this bloke hasn't been found guilty of anything, except in Jordan with the torture evidence?

DrBunker · **Posted:** 19 Jan 2012, 14:49

bluenosey wrote:

Why depressing ?

bluenosey wrote:

A non UK national is not a UK worry.

I think you answered your own question.

fancy dan · **Posted:** 19 Jan 2012, 15:06

pa102aw wrote:

blahblah wrote:

Any links?

I wouldn't be surprised if this was a myth perpetuated by our Anti-European press.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/296 ... Qatada-now

If you scroll down to the 5th paragraph from the bottom you will see what I quoted.

The ECHR has repeatedly put the most minuscule rights of terrorists over the most basic right to life of people who would be the victims of terrorism.

There are only two options open to us. Either Britain gets out of the ECHR altogether or we ignore its judgments when they are flagrantly wrong. Other countries such as France and Italy have shown that it is perfectly possible to ignore ECHR rulings. Neither are seriously regarded as barbarous.

They are nations that are serious about tackling barbarism. And when they have deported people despite the protestations of the ECHR what happens? It huffs and puffs but it has no power to stop a country ignoring its illogical and dangerous rulings.

That's just quoting someone saying what you said though, it's not offering any specific cases in which they have flouted the ECHR.

And accepting evidence based on torture hardly constitutes 'tackling barbarism', more like encouraging it IMO.

And it's from the Express

blahblah · **Posted:** 19 Jan 2012, 15:17

And Douglas Murray :wink:

bluenosey · **Posted:** 19 Jan 2012, 20:49

Pa is right. Italy is deporting immigrants hand over fist. A lot of these are people trying to make an honest living - decent types, not terrorists. They have come under attack from Italians. Some have even been shot by the Mafia

But does the ECOHR intervene ? Sadly not.

The European Court of Human Rights

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