Hi all,

I've posted this over in the TFF forum as a way of introducing ourselves to FISO. Been made aware that some of you wouldn't visit there though and that we should introduce ourselves in here as well, so here goes.

Hopefully you have all had fun playing TFFO this season. We really want to hear from you with ideas for next season's game, to improve it for existing players as well as making it more appealing to new players. If you have any ideas, please let us know in here.

Thanks
TFFootball

Hiya - thanks for posting - saw you on the regular tff section, and have already taken advantage of the world cup offer, thanks.

Re tffo, good to hear that it might still be on, despite falling numbers; my obvious suggestion to get numbers up again would be to launch much earlier; i nearly didn't play at all last year as had assumed the comp would never launch, and only had time to sort out one team - would have done more with more time to prepare. It's still a competitive market with over twenty other ff games of differing skill levels, prize money, reliability, and indeed fun - and though tffo is one of the best when it works properly, even the most dedicated player can't devote time to them all. Get in there first, and you'll be top of most peoples priority lists again.

P.s. I didn't have time to join the cricket this season mainly due to the world cup, but am hoping you can run a cricket world cup game again next year.

Cheers

It's great to hear from the Telegraph, especially in such a positive frame of thought! The link below is to a thread discussing some of the main topics to perhaps consider. As you will see, general feeling towards TFFO amongst the FISO-TFFO-ers remains very good indeed. In general people think it is either a very good game, or the best game. Advertising it earlier pre-season and allowing for clearly predictable periods of heavy traffic on the website would go most of the way towards solving the key issues we have, I think. The thread also mentions some nitty-grittier things. Thanks again for opening the dialogue.

next-season-t73355.html

Thanks QuizKing.

So you are generally happy with the mechanism of the game? Is there anything you would change for next season?

Thanks Biscuitman, lots of useful feedback in there.

Any chance of being able to select a 2nd choice captain/starman in case your first choice doesn't play? The need to be near a computer at kick off times for this game is undoubtedly a major reason in its low entry numbers, and anything you can do to reduce this need may have a positive affect on entry levels.

I had 3 teams last season, but the problem i found was if i went to a game i was at a disadvantage. Might i suggest a cut off time like in TFF up to the first kick off. I am sure that would have a positive influence on numbers.
Also increasing transfers to 18 would help , i find 15 too limiting if you fall behind early.

NO NO NO

Firstly, thanks for coming on here and listening to our ideas Mr TFF!

As has been mentioned before and will be mentioned again, I think the main thing for getting entries up next season will be to launch earlier. 09/10 was launched two weeks before PL kickoff, partly I believe due to the designing of the website and interface being ongoing. The previous season's dodgy team selection lockdown system (when the game was under CleverTV) may also have put people off returning, reducing entry numbers.

Once 09/10's website and interface was up and running, as far as I'm concerned it was excellent in looks and performance. This should mean few changes needed ahead of 10/11, so the game should be able to launch earlier, with potential customers happy to pay their money, in the knowledge of a good website behind the game unlike a year ago.




I see how it can affect some players, but I'm not sure how much the advantage of being at a computer at kick-off has an effect on entry numbers, compared to the fact that TFFO is simply a high-maintainance game from a players perspective (in that you have to select 5-6 different teams each weekend).

Also if you were to implement an alternative captain rule, would the swap happen if your man starts on the bench / not in the 18 / simply doesn't appear at all during the 90 mins? If you take the latter of those for example, it means a decision could be made on the basis of whether or not a player appears of the bench: ie a factor that is not known at kickoff. Bit dodgy I feel, and so many permutations to take account of.



I think the low number of transfers is part of the fascination of TFFO: making the initial selection important and having to stick with some average players for the duration of the season. I think 15 is fine, you have to use your rations appropriately! Certainly don't want much more.


And one last point I'd like to make (although I hope it's not necessary): I'd much rather TFFO run with a lower prize fund than not run at all.

I am in favour of the alternative captain option. Levels the playing field - not in terms of skill, but in terms of simple time availability. Relatively easy to implement, and yes, if your first choice comes off the bench, then he should be the one scoring your points.

I think TFFO is an excellent game except for the tedious requirement to to go through numerous screens in the process of selecting teams for a weekend, especially if you have several teams entered. Is there anyway to streamline the process by having far fewer screens involved, ideally one screen per team per week?

I'll second this one. If confirm on the team selection squad took you back to the fixture page where you could just click on the next selection link then that would be good. Perfection would be two confirm buttons, one that took you back to your team (as it now does) and another that saved those changes and automatically bought up the next set of fixtures. This would make setting up a whole weekend a doddle while not increasing the time taken to make last minute changes just before the kick-off.



Edit: I've changed the topic title to differentiate it from the other (non-squad) game. Hope that's ok.

Thanks for all the responses. It seem's like small tweaks are the order of the day. I don't think we would ever get agreement on rule changes, like the number of transfers, but I'm guessing that anything that could be done to improve the efficiency of selecting and managing teams would be met with general approval?

I guess it could be put on one screen (although a fair bit of work to implement).

Imagine the screen with clearly defined boxes for each set of fixtures.

Inside each box would be the fixtures at the top and below would be your squad grouped by position and next to each player would be a radio button or tick box allowing you to select / deselect for that set of fixtures then you scroll to the next fixtures and repeat. When happy with all selections you save the lot.

A buy one get one free offer to FISO members would up the numbers in TFFO.

I can almost guarantee that the following, restorative changes, would - at a minimum - double the TFFO entry from 09/10's paltry figure of 5,000:-

1. Permit overseas entries. Sure, your legal department has advised against this - but they are WRONG!
Ask them why The Mirror and The Sun (who can probably afford better briefs) take the approach that it's dependant on the Intenet Gambling laws of an entrant's country. Actually, Fantasy Football is not even classified as gambling in many of those countries (e.g. USA and Australia) and, let's face it, if the country allows Betfair, then TFFO isn't even on their radar.

2. Have a monthly prize (at least 5,000) that will attract the short haul specialists back in their droves. In addition to being the best seasonal game, TFFO is even further ahead as a monthly proposition as it is so interactive. Look back at your month-by-month entry statistics for past seasons - notice where (and why) the big drop occurs??

3. Launch the game earlier and market it properly. In recent seasons, the TFFO veterans on FISO have probably attracted more new players than your sales people have. Assuming that GFM retain the contract, there should be no (yet another) change of provider excuses: give TFFO some space in your newspaper.

4. Re-introduce a single page view of all stored, timed, team changes. Even better - introduce the much-touted 'auto pilot' feature which would allow players to miss the odd flange, or two, without scuppering their entire campaign.

Cheers,

A TFFO veteran.

This is the no 1 issue that would greatly increase the number of entries. Whoever the TFF legal advisors are I believe they have got it wrong . I would think they have erred on the side of extreme caution.
The US has deemed fantasy sports to be non gambling (Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006) but in the UK it is.
For anyone interested in the legality of fantasy sports around the world read this
http://www.cataniaconsulting.com/articl ... ality.html

The UK only thing is sadly not something that I can really comment on. It's a legal decision that we currently have to work to.

Launching earlier is certainly a reasonable request though, as is looking at the general ease of use of the site.

...but surely someone needs to (re)raise the obvious question as to why other UK Fantasy Games Providers do permit overseas entries?

An alternative would be to permit free overseas entries with no entitlement to financial prizes (a little similar to the International Cricket games that you ran in 2008) - but maybe something like a (non-transferable) return trip to the UK to watch a Premier League game the following season for the top foreign player (yes, I know, coming from NZ would make that a nice reward ).

Great to see this post. This type of thread generally gets set up every year, with the difference being that none of the ideas ever get implemented. Hopefully with this time things will be different!

I can give you a good case study of the problems that TFFO have had in recent years. I used to run a friends mini-league with 30+ entrants about 3 years ago (many of whom had multiple teams that weren't allowed into the league) so probably we represented about 60 teams in all.

In the last 3 years, our league has dwindled, to the point where now there are only 4 teams. I even stopped playing this year due to general lack of interest - in previous seasons I had been a keen devotee and regular top 10 finisher. This has been due to a couple of key factors:

- The interface being messed about with making it more difficult and time consuming for the 'casual' player to set up teams
- The exceptionally poor marketing and consistently late launch of the game

I'm sure that if there were a stable platform and interface, and a common-sense marketing strategy then TFFO could tap into the massive TFF player base. Add to this AK's suggestion of re-instating monthly prizes (which were never a draw for my mates, but I know are very popular on this forum and elsewhere) then you could significantly increase the number of entrants.

We all know that it's one of the best fantasy football games out there - the Telegraph just need to publicise it a bit more (and make the interface as user friendly as possible).

Great to hear from you TFFootball and welcome to the friendliest FISO forum

Nice to know that we will be back next season in what in my opinion is potentially the best fantasy footie game - it just needs a bit of love & attention. Here's my initial thoughts on how to improve the game :-

1) Surprisingly both the Squad Value and Remaining Transfers does not appear on the My Team page.

2) Agree with AK that a re-introduction of the single page view of all stored, timed, team changes would be a great help. Ones greatest fear is missing a flange - this should help alleviate the need to constantly go back to the website to check that the next flange is set up correctly.

3) On the My Team page display the remaining squad members as their actual icons and not as a list of players.

.........FB.........MID.......STR
GK
.........CB.........MID.......STR

4) Same day updates. Doesn't matter how early you get up the next morning - when you log on to the site the update is there. Many of us spend far too much time playing fantasy games as it is - we can ill afford to spend even more time waiting around for updates.

5) Earliest possible game launch time + a well tested and relaible website.

Apart from that no other changes please. I have other preferences but am happy to go along with a bit of continuity.

At the risk of sounding little britainish I would rather the TFF games were confined to the UK.

YTM hardly gets more player's than TFF.

And winning YTM is impossible with the multi's player (In excess of 160 teams) from Portugal

I'm all for overseas players being able to enter, don't think it would boost the total entries much though.
The game definitely needs launching earlier though, I think this was the most contributing factor of last season's fall in numbers.

A great game, glad to hear it's going ahead next season

You'd be surprised how many teams there were in the old Regional and Country Leagues - e.g. hundreds in the Oceania one. The overseas (weekly) edition of the Daily Telegraph advertised the game and there were prizes for both regional and country winners.



... or perhaps just England? The point about multis is hardly relevant to TFFO, although IMHO it's just as hard (if not tougher) to beat 6-9 of Oddsman's TFFO beasts as it is to defeat Zoran Furlan's 340 YTM teams. In fact, I managed the later feat (and was close to being the 3rd FISOer to win YTM with a 5 team entry) - but not the former (with 2 TFFO squads). It's all about quality and not quantity.

Welcome to the forum Mr Telegraph

In my opinion, TFFO is the most interesting and involving fantasy football game on the market and I think that with a few of the small tweaks mentioned above (particularly those suggested for improving the clarity and speed of the team selection process) it could attract the kinds of numbers that were playing it 3 or 4 years ago

I'd say that overall you all deserve big thumbs up and many thanks for running a great game

TFFO is my favourite game.

The only thing i would ever change is to keep the current squad set up but allow different formations such 3-5-2, 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 to make it more tactical and offer hope to players without transfers stuck with injured players in certain positions enabling them to continue playing making use of players in other positions.

Am glad to see TFFO should be with us for next season, thanks TFF for that (And welcome again - I did post on TFF forum re this game originally). I agree with BrightIs' comment re the ability to change from 4-4-2 to say 4-4-3, I know a lot of players may disagree & say thats the tactical element of the game knowing who to pick & when but it even if we choose the formation at the season start & then stick to it then it would give the opportunity to play your forwards say more often. Just a suggestion. Apart from that, I agree with Oddsman's comments for possible changes also. Think we should keep the captains to 1 choice without a backup as it's part of the fun!

Jsut be good to participate again next season in the best FF game on the market!

Personally I prefer the fixed formation, and happy to leave the formation choices to other games particularly TFF. Also it is one less variable for the player without frequent access to a computer/fancy phone to worry about on a multi-flange day. Don't think this is anything that needs fixing.

This is a high enough maintenance game without messing about with formations.

Besides, flexible formations would virtually remove flangablilty resulting in a totally different game.

TFFO is all about 1-2-2-4-2 teams from a 2-3-3-6-4 squad. End of story.

This game aint broke so cosmetic changes only please.

If I could only make one recommendation then it would be that it's vital to launch the game earlier than has been the case for the past couple of seasons, and with plenty of advertising about it's existance up front.

I would say that was the primary reason for falling attendances.

Most of the other points have been covered. I think the format is perfect, but the website needs improving, particularly in regard to timed team changes. Something more user friendly would be great. The FISO community has many exiles out there, some of them being our best contributors, so on their behalf, you really must sort out the foreign player issue. Picking Fantasy Football teams is a game of skill, not gambling.

A return to the monthly prize would definately help. Long after players have given up on the season long game, they would still be entering new teams for a crack at the monthly prize.

Finally, it's probably too much to ask, but I really enjoyed the Champions League game when it was around. I'd love to see that back as well.

PS I don't like the idea of changing formations though.