The fat analogy is interesting. There is obviously a social stigma attached to being fat in our society that would make us (due to our awareness of how our society judges fat people) reluctant to use it as a way to identify someone. In the 70's/80's our society applied a stigma to being black or Asian or (most ridiculous euphemism ever!) "coloured".

As such, we were reluctant to highlight it as a form of identification. I'd like to think we are beyond that and can simply point out that it is the "black man sitting in row g" or whatever. I'd imagine that with themmovement of black culture into the mainstream that it is more acceptable to refer to a black man or woman as simply that. I know my black friends cringe at any clumsy attempts at describing them as Afro Caribbean...

The thing with "fat" is that normally it is a choice, and a lifestyle one. I guess that there is no problem with describing tattoos all over their face as tattoo man? Or shaven headed man (woman would be a stand out, except for Chemo....), or Hippie?

Some people ARE fat. It is a fact.

Some people ARE black it is a fact.

Various people have various viewpoints on both situations in others and themselves. Many of us, to varying degrees, thinking being fat is a bad thing and apply a value judgement to that. Alas, racists do the same with black people.

Just as a fair proportion of fat people would dislike being referred to as 'the fat person over there' some black people would dislike being referred to as black. Partly, because some (racists) load the word with a value judgement and they don't know if the speaker is doing so.

Therefore despite personally believing that there is nothing wrong with referring to someone as black I know I have to tread carefully and it does create awkward situations.

The PC gone mad crowd 'banning' perfectly innocent words like blackboard and black coffee because of ludicrous perceptions of negative connotations have made it all so much worse.

And yes all my black family and friends are happy to refer to themselves and others as black. They are all sane!

The negative connotations were more blackmail, black ball an erm.......... descriptive words are fine, and it is the loony element that are easy to mock that go on about descriptive uses of the word black, and relate them to slavery.

Aren't blackboards white nowadays? Also "black" people are actually shades of brown

I think the fat issue is that it is for most of them a matter of choice unlike skin colour, height, baldness, hair colour and to an extent religion.... so calling them fat is the same as saying that they eat\drink too much (assuming the lack of dodgy thyroids etc or whatever causes "medical fatness" etc

Some people are fat but that is often subjective unless they are very over weight. When is someone fat? How overweight? It is also likely to cause offence.

So don't call someone fat unless you want to offend

Some people are black - but that is not in any way offensive

Its not that complicated is it?

So why can we call black people black, but not call fat people fat?

You're kidding me?

"Black" is not offensive, "fat" is

So if you want to offend a fat person go ahead and call them fat. But you will be being rude and offensive.................

Always found Richard Herring the brains behind Stewart Lee and he has not been the same since Fist of Fun.

Yes I get that, but why is fat more offensive than tall short, bald, ginger, blonde, brunette ?

Because of the values of our society and what is likely to offend surely?

Tall for example is unlikely to offend but short may do. As may bald. Ginger, blonde or brunette would be fine in the example of pointing someone out too, although ginger may be an issue for someone who may be auburn or strawberry blonde as "ginger" in our vocabulary is often seen as a bad or ugly thing.

None of this is about PC ness though is it? Just being considerate and polite.

They, to me, are the same thing.

The fat issue has had me sort of confused\curious for a while - as it is a massive taboo word etc. I have no answer to why calling someone fat is bad, but old, young etc are OK when there are anti-ageist laws, but not anti fatist laws.

Is it the Queen Vic and Lesbianism thing, where she denied it could exist, unlike two men which was illegal....

I think its because "fat" is very subjective. People are also very upset by it and many people spend a lot of time trying to control diets and figures and are very self conscious. Is a women who is a size 12 fat? Or size 14? Or 16 or bigger?

There is also sometimes great shame attached to weight: we can control it.

We can hardly control age.

Exactly my point about weight be controllable - except for the thyroid type issues.