Simple question, not such a simple answer...

impossible to enforce and i'm sure someone could get around it

Not a DT player, but all the arguments seem to be over Syndicates targeting Mini League prizes.

If the DT people slashed the prize money on offer for the Mini League prizes and redistributed the aount saved to other DT prizes, perhaps increasing the amounts paid for 2nd downwards, would anyone be affected, other than the TAM clan & some FISO members targetting ML prizes.

I suspect most Mini Leagues are set up by work colleagues who are casual FF players. If such an event happened, would player numbers drop that much? I suspect most people in MLs are not even aware of the Seasonal ML prize.

I think the arguments are over more than just mini-leagues, as WDT was a prime example. Syndicates do target the mini-league prizes first and foremost, but is it fair that many syndicates (not just Tam) use multiple accounts just to make up the numbers to be able to win more prizes? Is it fair that one syndicate could have 20+ accounts and therefore win far more prizes than a father and son combo that are playing by the rules?

I understand it would be hard to enforce, but it wouldn't be impossible. If we can figure out who is working with who based purely on team information, The Sun could manage it having access to payment information, email addresses and other account info.

If you had 20 people in a syndicate and they divided themselves into 10 lots of 2,then how could the sun figure the 20 were a syndicate?

That would be the most difficult type of syndicate to identify, but it's still not impossible. A syndicate even divided into strict pairs would share common tactics, would often use a common team naming structure, sometimes the same IP addresses would be used to log in (when sorting teams if someone is on holiday, for example) and you could also get an idea of syndicates by similar entry times (especially after the initial start of season rush). You could also find out through reading FISO!

It would be far easier for The Sun to identify syndicates of fewer people who are using multiple accounts. I agree though, it would be a nightmare rule to enforce, but one that I bet they have considered after the AutoTam debacle.

there are some people who are in more than one syndicate, it messes my spreadsheets right up!

Currently they just pay out to the chairman of a winning mini league and the chairman is trusted to share out any winnings with owners of the league. Any other way would increase admin costs, decreasing profit.

2009/10 WDT you could set yourself up as a syndicate. maybe it didn't take off.

It's a bit harsh limiting prizes at all as you could end up with a load of teams unable to win anything for the majority of the season. I can see why they do it though. I may be a bit biased too. Look at me and JPK in the GrandFinale for example.

I misunderstood you meaning 2 overall and not per prize.

Bloggie, it's not just about Tam, and not just about mini-league prizes. It's unfair for people to flout the rules by using alias accounts, rendering the current limit of prizes per user account as useless. So the solution is to either crack down harder on false accounts or to limit prizes per syndicate, unless you can think of a better solution...?

Simply don't have any limits at all would be the easiest solution surely?

Assuming a level playing field (which I remain sceptical about) then if someone is good/ lucky enough to keeping popping up at the top of leaderboards whether they be weekly or monthly, individual or ML, SDT or WDT then just pay them out, it's up to everyone else to compete.

If it's not a level playing field then shut the game down.

Sounds a good idea I just misunderstood the number you said.

Do we think the manual entry stipulation will have the intended effect?Surely it must as the tam method was totally reliant on one process.

Personally I believe there are a few very pertinent questions to be asked of those running the game as to how whatever the method used went "unnoticed" by them until significant pressure was put on them to do something about it following sleuth's observations.

"We" don't know what they did, how they did it or for how long they were doing it. I find it inconceivable that entry levels of a few clearly connected accounts that surpassed every other entrant by a very significant margin could be overlooked and not warrant investigation.

Adding a line or two to their T&Cs does absolutely nothing preventative. If they honestly didn't know it had been happening over the past 2 seasons what makes you think that they'll be able to spot either the same thing or a new method next season?

I'm sure that without a robot helping Tam enter billions of teams, the playing field will be pretty much as level as it can be (certainly far more level than it's been for several seasons), so I remain hopeful that the competition will be wide open for several individuals and syndicates to win prizes. I'd rather there be some rules in place to stop one person swamping the competition again, though if it's not possible to enforce then yeah, take away the prize limits.


Perhaps the threat of chucking thousands of pounds down the drain will be enough to put Tam off trying his AutoBot 2012 software (assuming they keep his money and not just refund him). Perhaps he'll just be a bit cleverer and find some new method of entering teams to try and make it look more like a manual entry.

Whatever happens, I hope The Sun completely overhaul their T's & C's using a few decent lawyers to draft them, pick them to pieces and then re-draft them to be bullet-proof, and then once they're sorted I hope they rigorously enforce them.

Do you really think The Sun are that bothered Jules?

They just want their entry fees from as many people as possible! Im sure they couldn't give a flying fig who wins & whether they have cheated or not just as long as they make loadsa wonga from the entries.

What's more I'm sure that if they thought that by "turning a blind eye to the cheating" it would bring them more entries & consequently more money then they would pass the blindfolds round quicksmart.

They did take action last season albeit not retrospective.

probably right Dave, but something they may regret

I think they are. Just ask Sanjay if he has received his 100k Mini League Prize yet.