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 Post subject: Senna
PostPosted: 31 May 2011, 17:51 
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FISO Knight
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson ... _movi.html


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 Post subject: Re: Senna
PostPosted: 31 May 2011, 23:43 
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Dumblenose
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Would love to know how much fact/fiction this film will have. I remember Senna's first season in F1. Then Ayrton Senna da Silva. The wet Monaco GP in 84 where he made his name in a scintilating drive for Toleman, he was very much the enfant terrible.

Only Brundle could touch him in F3 in 1983, both making the step up a year later.

Signing for Lotus in 85. The first win in Estoril. Peter Warr celebrating in the rain

Insisiting on not having Derek Warwick as a number two in 1986 (johnny Dumfries was chosen instead)

Constantly punching above his weight in the Lotus.

I am sure most of this film will focus on the Prost years. I hope the film will not portray Prost as the villain. They had an agreement on whoever reached the first corner first stayed there. One of them broke the agreement in 88, I think it may have been Senna.

Monaco 88 when he was a minute ahead and slid off at Tabac (I think) and then retired to his hotel room for 3 days.

Senna's raw speed v Prost's super smooth style. It ended in tears (twice). Suzuka 89 where they came together at the chicane and again in 90 where Senna blatantly drove Prost off the road. How this will be portrayed will be interesting.

Senna's one lap speed was breathtaking and his pole position record will never be beaten (I think). His ruthlessness through traffic also amazing. The one thing I couldn't quite get my head round was the "you're not coming past at any cost".

Senna's heir to his throne - Michael Schumacher - took this approach and took it a notch further....

Senna's genuis was Donnington 93. Absolutely awesome. Six cars in one lap, again in the rain. A class of his own...

Very sad the way he died considering Berger's accident at the same track (which looked a helluva lot worse and yet he survived with burns to his hands).

It will be an interesting movie for sure....


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 Post subject: Re: Senna
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2011, 00:11 
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FISO Baron
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Always someone I admired more than loved (but had more of a soft spot for than say Schumacher).

I remember watching him in junior formulae - pre F3 when he was still Ayrton da Silva (no Senna then, think he took that on for his F3 year. Used his mother's maiden name initially so he wouldn't be found out!), his classic season v Brundle in F3 and I was lucky enough to be at Donington on that day in 93 (despite getting v.wet) watching him come down the Craner Curves from the outside of the Old Hairpin.

He had more natural speed than anyone I've seen before or since.


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 Post subject: Senna
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2011, 00:39 
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A fascinating character. But too much dark side to him to truly like. I also hope Prost isn't played as a villain in the film. In fact I hope fans of the sport don't discover too much fiction in this at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Senna
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2011, 08:54 
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Red & Blue Braces
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I'm going to see this on saturday. Listened to an interview with the director on the guardian film podcast last week saying its not a slanted cut and its suprising how much material was available from the earlier days. We shall see.


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 Post subject: Re: Senna
PostPosted: 04 Jun 2011, 19:46 
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Red & Blue Braces
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This is astoundingly good. If you're an F1 fan then I'd urge you to see it in the cinema rather than wait for dvd - some of the in car footage is just brutal on the big screen(modern drivers have it easy). Theres so many things you'd forgotten about (I almost choked up seeing martin donnelly) and others that you get some more perspective on. I'll keep spoilers to a minimum from here on.

I'd say its all fact and no fiction. They don't paint prost as the bad guy - if anything they show a side to him I didn't know existed. Theres a comment from prost at monaco in sennas 1st mclaren season that typifies everything that went on in the future - and i believe it too as its the same attitude rossi had to biaggi/capirossi etc

the end of the 88 japan gp you see a lot of behind the scenes stuff and there was french meddling but not prost. It totally explains japan 89 and the motives that went on. I don't believe for a second there was a first corner agreement. They don't focus on the personal recriminations to what happened afterwards but ron dennis gives an indication.

The imola weekend is staggering seeing it all back, you could tell there were people in the cinema who either didn't know or remember what happened on every day of that weekend. If you know whats coming it doesn't lessen the blow at all. The end of the saturday footage almost broke me again. I realised I was gripping the armrests approaching the finale of it all.

Despite all that you see more of his personal life and including an appearance on a christmas show thats hilarious for all the wrong reasons. This is a must see.


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 Post subject: Re: Senna
PostPosted: 07 Jun 2011, 21:52 
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FISO Knight
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To this day Ayrton remains my sporting idol, i carry his number on my kart (which is plastered in 86 Lotus decals) and have more memorabilia than i know what to do with. I was left a little underwhelmed and disappointed by it all but then maybe thats because i have seen so much Senna footage before. I have a VHS video very much home cobbled together which lasts longer and is every bit as good and moving as the movie imho. Never going to please everyone i guess.

Loved the inclusion of the Brazilian fans voicing their approval at Prost though. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Senna
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2011, 13:23 
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Scoffw wrote:
the end of the 88 japan gp you see a lot of behind the scenes stuff and there was french meddling but not prost. It totally explains japan 89 and the motives that went on. I don't believe for a second there was a first corner agreement. They don't focus on the personal recriminations to what happened afterwards but ron dennis gives an indication.


There was and it was San Marino '89 when Senna broke it. Prost was not a happy bunny and thought the team sided with Ayrton. The rest is history....


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 Post subject: Re: Senna
PostPosted: 09 Jun 2011, 11:48 
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Just finished watching the full 2hr40 version, the edited bits are interviews and in all honesty do not add much.

Should have mentioned a couple of rare cinema things which happened, as soon as the film started the whole cinema went silent - no munching of popcorn or drinks just a total hush. Once it ended and the credits rolled not one person got up and left (theres some footage of him playing in the sea).


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 Post subject: Re: Senna
PostPosted: 16 Mar 2012, 23:01 
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Dumblenose
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Finally I have watched the film. I can understand non F1 fans liking it but it left me slightly perplexed.

On the plus side, there is some amazing footage of the GP drivers pre race meetings. Jean Marie Balestre came across as a De Gaulle type character. Pretty obnoxious. I can understand the friction there between him and Senna. The whole fateful weekend in April 1994 is stunningly played out and left me thinking - as I did then - that GP was cursed. Senna looked very vulnerable and on edge seeing both the young Barrichello's crash and then the death of the likeable Ratzenberger. It was a side I hadn't seen. I didn't realise he was that religious either. Ma and Pa Senna were not keen on his final beau, the pretty blonde who's name escaped me. That wasn't mentioned, like the fact he was divorced at an early age.

I did think Prost was portrayed as the villain. Cunning and political. There was no Donnington 93 - Senna's finest moment. No Barca 1992 - wheel to wheel down the straight with Mansell which was simply awesome. In fact, Piquet and Mansell hardly get a mention. Mansell had the best car in 92 and the film made a big issue of this yet it was streets ahead in the same way the 88 Mclaren was. There were no interviews with Gerhard Berger - the man who brought him out as a human. No Martin Brundle, who gave Senna a fine run in F3 in '83. And some American bloke from ESPN lept on being referred to. John Bas...who ?

That comment that Prof Sid Watkins said to Senna "You don't need this Ayrton, how about me and you retire and go fishing" That did bring a bit of a lump to my throat.

Great trip down memory lane but could have been so much better IMO.


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 Post subject: Re: Senna
PostPosted: 17 Mar 2012, 00:37 
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Watched this last night and although it didn't quite live up to many of the reviews I'd previously encountered still thought it was a very decent documentary.

However, I'm not a fan of F1 so not really in a position to comment on how accurate or objective it was...I will say though that Prost was definitely portrayed as the villain of the piece :wink: ...


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 Post subject: Re: Senna
PostPosted: 17 Mar 2012, 01:25 
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FISOhead
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I believe its on Sky Atlantic this coming Thursday at 21:00. As Lovefilm don't seem to have the rights and I'm not a sky movies subscriber I'll be taking this chance to catch it.


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