Zarch Complete Sun DT Player Stats (1998-2011) UPDATED 10/11

Zarch · **Posted:** 15 Jul 2010, 06:33

All,

Another season is upon us, so lets roll out all the geeky stats crap again...... :wink:

Please find attached the link to the updated version of my complete stats collection in readiness for the new season.

http://zarch1972.blogspot.com/2011/07/s ... stats.html

So far, I've updated the following tabs with last seasons 09/10 data:

09/10 - (end of last seasons scores with PPM etc)
200Pts - (who posted 200+pts going back through the years)
FB v CB - (full backs versus centre backs... the age old argument)

And I hope to get the following tabs updated over the next few days:

Points History
09/10 Detail
Cleans & Euro Apps

Please read the "Stats Explained" tab for full detail regarding each tab on the spreadsheet.

Any questions or comments please let me know.

Enjoy.
PS. If you want to read the comments from the stats sheet from this time last year, its all here: zarch-s-sdt-complete-player-stats-scoring-1998-to-2009-t60516.html

But please reply on this new thread if you have any questions.

Herc6 · **Posted:** 15 Jul 2010, 06:38

Excellent effort as always Zarch. Your work and time is appreciated.

Now let the geeky stuff begin 8-)

Ebbsfleet · **Joined:** Tue May 13 2008 **Posts:** 698

Your my Boy Zarch!!!!!

Awesome... plenty to chew over!

Loving the 200 points page... that puts a few arguments to bed!

Zarch · **Posted:** 16 Jul 2010, 08:44

An update for you........

The "Clean & Euro Apps" tab has now been updated for last season's data.

It shows:

P = Games Played
CS = Clean Sheets kept
-1 = Goals over 1 per match conceded (ie all the season's -1's added up)
Pts = Points for Cleans (cleans x 5) - goals conceded (the -1's)

RED - Champions League Qualifiers
BLUE - UEFA/Europa Qualifiers
PURPLE - Newly Promoted Sides
(R) - Relegated

Number in brackets indicates the
number of games played in either:
(C) Champions League
(U) UEFA/Europa Cup
(excluding games which do not count in Dream Team)

For example, if you picked Chelsea defender and he played every game he would have picked up 128pts just from cleans/goals against through the season. (without any 7+, starman, goals or bookings)
On the other hand, a Wigan player playing every game would have picked up -14pts for the same. :shock:

Enjoy!

swifty101 · **Joined:** Wed Jul 07 2010 **Posts:** 17

Posted this link in another thread but I know the stat geeks will read this one, site gives breakdowns on nearly every match last season:

http://www.football-lineups.com/country/E1/teams/

Zarch · **Posted:** 19 Jul 2010, 08:10

More Progress........

Now updated the "Points History" tab with all last seasons data.

This tab now gives full points totals from the past 7 seasons side by side along with an average for each player.
So right back to 03/04 Season (the first where 2pts for a midfielder clean sheet was introduced)

Hoping to get 09/10 detail completed over the next day or so........

Enjoy!

Zarch · **Posted:** 19 Jul 2010, 08:22

Top 30 Average (of players with 2 or more seasons in the game)

Code:

Player          Average   No Seasons
F Lampard       316.57         7
S Gerrard       260.86         7
J Terry         247.86         7
C Ronaldo       247.50         6
F Torres        241.67         3
W Rooney        230.86         7
D Drogba        221.80         5
J Carragher     200.71         7
C Tevez         197.25         4
D Berbatov      187.25         4
N Vidic         179.08         4
R Ferdinand     177.29         7
N Anelka        171.80         5
H Gomes         168.50         2
P Cech          163.83         6
E Adebayor      163.50         4
B Hangeland     163.00         2
A Young         162.67         3
J Lescott       160.25         4
W Gallas        158.00         7
F Fabregas      157.33         6
R Keane         155.00         7
D Bent          154.60         5
J Reina         154.00         5
J Defoe         152.83         6
F Malouda       151.67         3
D Kuyt          147.00         4
R Giggs         145.14         7
K Toure         143.29         7
G Barry         142.86         7

I left Ronaldo in for effect! :wink:

CBN · **Posted:** 19 Jul 2010, 09:58

This is an incredible resource. If I win any prizes this year I'll be sure to give you a commision!

Can I ask a dumb question? What is this: PPm^0.4?

Zarch · **Posted:** 19 Jul 2010, 10:10

CBN wrote:

This is an incredible resource. If I win any prizes this year I'll be sure to give you a commision!

Can I ask a dumb question? What is this: PPm^0.4?

I accept cheques, bank transfers and paypal! :wink:

Also check out Jules site and thread (he has a donate button, the lucky devil)

jules-player-stats-website-t65027.html

I knew the old the PPM^0.4 question was coming, so here's an excerpt from last seasons stats thread (referenced at the start of this thread) where standard PPM (points / value) is compared to PPM^0.4 (points / value (to the power of 0.4))

PPM - (M to the power 0) - ie points / price
PPM^0.4 - (M to the power of 0.4)- ie points / price (to the power of 0.4)

davov wrote:

Excellent data Zarch.

I was just checking in to look up any news of prices etc. for next season and notice a reference to my old PPsqrtM theory (I thought no one was interested!).

I'll try to explain, if I can remember.

If you chose a team on basic PPM (M to the power of 1) principals you would only spend about £20m on your team and it would be rubbish.
If you chose a team purely based on points (PPM (M to the power 0)) you'd have loads of points but you'd spend £100m (or whatever).

So a balance is needed, you need to find the optimum power factor for M. Square rooting M is the same as M to the power of 0.5, so that's what I did, just to split the difference as it were.
I tweaked it further on my spreadsheet to try to find the figure to power M by so that if you added up the players at the top of the list for each position to make a team the total would be around the £50m mark.

Powering the M by 0.4 seemed to give the best results. These are the top few in each position for 08/09

Picking the top players out of that you'd spend £45.5 and have 2427 points.
A certain amount of fiddling will obviously have to be done to find the best team to fit within the rules of the game though.

Remember, it's just a theory that arised from spending too much time playing with my spreadsheet possibly.
Lies, damn lies and statistics!

Zimmerman wrote:

goldenballs wrote:

Can you explain the ppm square root thing again?

I was pro PP SqR M (in comparison to PPM).

My viewpoint (which is open to debate) is that PPM may well highlight (or hint at) the best value for money players.

My view is that PPM taken in isolation is misleading.

i.e. Dawson at Hull. He got 53 points (at a cost of just £1m). So a PPM of 53.
John Terry's PPM was a mere 40.

Would Dawson be a better player to select?
Not IMO.

Whereas the PP SqR M, gives a more 'balanced' comparison;
Dawson = 53
Terry = 98.

Rick's (valid) argument is that this skews the figures in favour of the dearer players.
My personal opinion is that it levels the playing field.

In either scenario, both can only be used as a tool to help settle a quandary. Neither system can/should take the place of pure instinct, blind faith or out and out luck!!!!

Zarch · **Posted:** 19 Jul 2010, 12:40

No reply on the PPM^0.4??? There's a surprise, LOL! :lol:

Right............ tab 09/10 "Detail" is now complete. Much credit must goto Jules and his site, as this saved me having to trawl through Soccernet for each individual player! :lol:

Not sure what to make a start on now..... think I'm done!

Zimmerman · **Posted:** 19 Jul 2010, 17:14

Sure my explanation is better than davov's (despite it being his concept).
You geeks are all the same

CBN · **Posted:** 19 Jul 2010, 19:35

Thanks guys.

PS If 09/10 Detail is not finished yet then tell me to shut up but if not, just to say you are missing NOTW 8 points for keepers.

Zarch · **Posted:** 20 Jul 2010, 06:39

CBN wrote:

PS If 09/10 Detail is not finished yet then tell me to shut up but if not, just to say you are missing NOTW 8 points for keepers.

Good spot, sorted out that little problem now. :wink:

CBN · **Posted:** 20 Jul 2010, 08:44

No worries. There are still problems though. For instance, first player I checked: Almunia

You say 87 points but have this breakdown:

Rating points 33
Goal points 0
Card points -1
Clean points 65
NOTW points 0

That makes 97?

More players seem to be wrong than right unless I am missing something. [Not criticising just trying to help]

CBN · **Posted:** 20 Jul 2010, 08:50

Maybe the missing link for defenders and goalkeepers is the points lost through conceding? Although that doesn't explain why for example the first midfielder I look at in the 08-09 Detail doesn't add up:

Arshavin 99 points

Rating 48
Goal 30
Card -2
Clean n/a
NOTW 2

The sum of those is 78?

CBN · **Posted:** 20 Jul 2010, 08:52

I must be missing something blindingly obvious! :oops:

CBN · **Posted:** 20 Jul 2010, 08:56

Adebayor in the 08-09 Detail thread (definitely no clean sheet or concede points at work here).

Score 140

Rating 50
Goal 75
Card -8
NOTW 18

That = 135

Zarch · **Posted:** 20 Jul 2010, 09:04

The Total points are 100% correct.

The other totals mentioned(in grey) are derived...... ie clean x 5pts (for gk/defs), 7+ x 3pts each...... sadly, there is no way of getting the derived totals to add upto to the "total points" for goalkeepers and defenders because there is no way of working out in each game how many minus points were taken for goals against over 1 goal.

Sadly its not as simple as all goals conceded = lose that many points in the Sun game.

If you take a look and "cleans and euro apps" tab, you'll see how strange the minus points for defenders and keepers can be.

You should find that all midifielders and attackers "total points" add up to the "derived" ones because there is no goals against to screw the figures. (apart from where they has been a hat-trick(5pts), as there is no indicator anywhere to say when those were scored)

CBN · **Posted:** 20 Jul 2010, 09:26

Ahh so Hattricks is the missing link for Mids/Atts - panic over! Thanks Zarch, all makes sense.

Zarch · **Posted:** 22 Jul 2010, 07:48

I thought I was done..... I was wrong.

Added: App History (over the past 3 seasons)

Enjoy! :lol:

Miles_T · **Joined:** Thu Oct 13 2005 **Posts:** 1733

Many thanks for all your work on this Zarch

jeffmcgow · **Joined:** Thu Oct 13 2005 **Posts:** 318

Zarch wrote:

...... sadly, there is no way of getting the derived totals to add upto to

the "total points" for goalkeepers and defenders because there is no way of working out in

each game how many minus points were taken for goals against over 1 goal.

Sadly its not as simple as all goals conceded = lose that many points in the Sun

game.

A defender/goalie will play P + S matches where P is the number of games started and S is

the number of games as a sub.

He will keep CS clean sheets in a season.

So the number of games in which he concedes 1 or more goal (ie no clean sheet) is

P + S - CS (equation 1) [matches in which at keast 1 goal is conceded]

Now let's look at the matches in which 1 or more goals are conceded. It doesn't matter if

these matches are distributed 10-0 1-0 1-0 , 4-3 4-3 4-3 or 2-0 5-2 5-1 because each is

worth -9 (all 12 goals conceded in 3 games) i.e. you only need to know how many goals where

conceded in the games not how they where conceded.

1-0 1-0 3-0 2-0 is worth -3 (7 goals 4 games)
3-2 4-0 is worth -5 (7 goals in 2 games)

From the examples it's clear that the number of points lost equals the total number of goals

conceded (GC) less the number of matches in which a goal was conceded.

=> points lost = GC - (P + S - CS) from equation 1

Rearranging: points lost = GC + CS - (P + S)

In plain old Queen's: the number of points lost from conceding goals for a defender or

goalie is equal to the number of goals conceded plus the number of clean sheets less the

number of appearances of the player (as a starter or sub)

STINKYGOLDFISH · **Posted:** 25 Jul 2010, 12:43

Blimey! The SGLH model didnt half cough once i'd inputted that!

Thanks anyway

jeffmcgow · **Joined:** Thu Oct 13 2005 **Posts:** 318

Always glad to lend a helping fin. I'm one of the many genuinely routing for you to win the £500,000. Looking forward to reading about you and your diamond encrusted fish tank being driven in a Bentley by a couple of Stoke defenders to collect your auntie's favourite cream cakes.

STINKYGOLDFISH · **Posted:** 25 Jul 2010, 13:40

jeffmcgow wrote:

Always glad to lend a helping fin. I'm one of the many genuinely routing for you to win the £500,000. Looking forward to reading about you and your diamond encrusted fish tank being driven in a Bentley by a couple of Stoke defenders to collect your auntie's favourite cream cakes.

Quality!!!!! :lol:

Zimmerman · **Posted:** 31 Jul 2010, 06:13

giving this a bump as there are obviously still lots of people in need of facts to help inform their choices.

Jules' site is here too.... http://www.julianandsarah.com/dreamteam/index.asp

Zimmerman · **Posted:** 31 Jul 2010, 06:31

Anyone else get that annoying message when they go into the stats sheet?
I cant get rid of it (without coming out and going back in.... and they say nurses have it tough)!

PS it looks like Jules' archive is off line as well

Miles_T · **Joined:** Thu Oct 13 2005 **Posts:** 1733

Maybe it's going pay per view

Zarch · **Posted:** 29 Jun 2011, 13:26

Afternoon all,

Really pleased to announce that i've got my arse into gear early this summer and updated "Sun DT Player Stats" for 2010/11 before the new price lists have come out.

http://zarch1972.blogspot.com/2011/07/s ... stats.html

The following tabs on the spreadsheet have been updated.

10-11
Basic player list showing scores, PPM and PPM^0.4

10-11 Detail
Detailed player list showing full breakdown of how points scored. % 7+, starman and clean sheet plus much more. (just missing the hat-trick bonus points, which i hope to collate shortly)

Points History
Shows points total and PPM^0.4 from every player who has been in Dreamteam for the last 8 seasons. (when midfield clean sheet points first came in)

App History
Shows apperance history for the last 4 seasons along with an average.

Cleans & Euro Apps
8 seasons worth of games played, clean sheet totals, european apperances and "goals over 1 per match" totals. Along with the amount of points gained solely from clean sheets.

200pts Club
Shows every player from the last 8 seasons who broke into the 200pts club.

FB v CB
List every defender from the last 8 seasons who has scored over 100pts with each defender is the classified as CB or FB. Then at the bottom of the list there is some FB v CB analysis supporting the CB over FB theory.

Much Kudos must go to Jules for his fantastic stats website. Hopefully with help, the site can keep going next season as it makes my job of collating much of this data far easier.

Any questions or problems with the data, just let me know.
Also, any observations, stick them in a thread in the main forum! :mrgreen:

jpk · **Joined:** Thu Oct 13 2005 **Posts:** 2826

good stuff Zarch, I appreciate your hard work in helping me win the half million next season

Zarch Complete Sun DT Player Stats (1998-2011) UPDATED 10/11

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