Completely out of the blue, I was invited to meet the boss today. I had thought we were about to discuss a presentation I had to deliver in Paris on Thursday.....but no....seems I am no longer required

There are potentially significant benefits to this but I am curious to know the legality of what they have done.

I was head of the Purchasing department in a paper mill. There have been various re-orgs within the larger group and this mill is one of about 5. They have decided that the structure is not working for the new group and they want to have a more central team that covers the group rather than individual mills. I would have been one of the candidates to lead this team but they have decided to recruit another employee from another part of the company and there is no place for another person at the same level - i.e Me. Those that made this decision have no direct knowledge of what I actually do.

Until today, no one had told me that the current structure was ineffective (although it was and I knew it). Is there any element of unfairness about this ?

On the other hand, my contract requiures 3 months notice. They have told me that I can work from home for March. They will release me on March 31 and pay me 2 months in lieu plus another 2 months sympathy or something. I started April 1st 2008.

This is more than they need to - right ?

PS - I intend to pass murf's post count in the next month

Since you started work on 1st April 2008, your 3 month notice period takes you past the 2-year minimum for getting redundancy. This actually means you are entitled to 1 weeks pay as redundancy (which I know isn't a lot, but you're entitled, so you take it).

You're also entitled to accrued holiday pay during your notice period. Again, it all adds into the pot.

The fact they're offering you 2 months pay to cover both these two things I've mentioned is well more than you're legally entitled to.

As for the fairness of it all, it is a bit of a tw*t. If they're making your job redundant (i.e. not taking anyone else on to do your job when you leave), then I'm sorry to say that there's nothing you can do about it. Reading what you've said about getting some-one else in without actually knowing what you do, it sounds like they've got round this by re-defining the new position, so it's not actually your job.

The main thing to do is not blot your copy-book during your last month. Don't trash the place on your last day. It might make you feel good at the time, but it doesn't help with trying to get a new job.

I would say from your description, Andy, that you have a case either way: if there is some problem with your performance there is no description of a formal disciplinary process, while if your position is being made redundant but you have not been given the chance to apply for the new role then there is a proceedural breach. This would be backed up by their arranged recruitment of another employee - they planned the role but didn't give you the chance.

Have you been asked to sign a confidentiality clause/compromise agreement? The fact they are offering some extra pay hints this might be the case. So while technically they may be offering a bit more, it is possible to see this as them attempting to fob you off as they know they have breached the law. I am currently unemployed and have settled with my former employer or else I was off to the tribunal. Have you got a solicitor you can speak to?

Unfair dismissal is a real tricky one. Nearly all the cases I have been involved with have succeeded usually because the procedure followed in making the person redundant have simply not been followed. The right to representation, a fair hearing, right to appeal, proper communication and procedure etc. Almost never are they unfair in the sense that the decision was plainly wrong. Edit I agree with what set out above : the timing looks a bit wrong : you should really know about the redundancy before the decision - consultation period etc.

Is there an employee handbook that is a good starting point as it may have the procedures nicely set down - have they been followed - can you appeal etc. What you should do is make a note of absolutely everything time scale etc.

Also do you really want to "sue" your ex employer. There are a couple of remedy's - reinstatement - for obvious reasons - as rare as hens teeth. Compensation - it's pretty poor and it sounds like they have gone slightly over what you are entitled too - so probably not much in from a cash point of view. Also if you can leave on favourable terms with a favourable reference then that is a much better outcome for many - not many people see the benefit of explaining the absence of a reference on the fact that you successfully sued your last company. Also how big is the area of expertise that you operate in / can word get around that might be "trouble" - if you know what I mean.

I am slightly rusty on the length of service thing (for bringing a claim) - it used to be 2 years but I think it got shortened - in any event as Shaggy says the notice period takes you over 2 years in any event.

What I might consider doing immediately is speaking to someone who is less rusty than me (I stopped mid 90's) - 3 possibilities - a solicitor - not cheap - legal aid not usually available. Citizen's advice bureau - cannot sing their praises enough - very professional - I worked in one as a volunteer for 3 years (as an employment lawyer) - they will be able to guide you - but maybe not represent you. Finally are you in a trade union - if that is the case you should contact your rep - they will certainly be able to help.

Oh and sorry to hear your news - should have started with that really. Of course what you really want to do is get a new job sorted pronto and pocket the cash! Bear in mind redundancy money is tax free up to £30k, or it used to be.

Hope that helps - its all probably a bit out of date - but may be a starting point!

Good luck.

Just buy a Dundee FC season ticket instead.
Hope things work out fella.

30K still exists tax-free for any kind of payment i.e. redundancy and unfair dismissal payoff. Unfair dismissal max is c.65K (of which 35K is therefore taxable).

Good advice.

Bad times



This is the key point. It's all about remedies and whether you would be put in a better position in trying to fight it. Your notice period + 2 months is probably more than you would get at a tribunal. Most employers know that and if it isn't discriminatory or one of the automatic grounds for unfair dismissal, they know that any advisor is going to tell you to settle.

Cheers for the info guys. I think I might try the CAB but the last time I went to local office, they were not skilled up to answer my questions.

There are a few keys points from the answers I have read.

1) There will be a procedure which I will get a copy of.
2) There was no prior warning or anything - just a meeting saying thanks and bye.
3) There was no opportunity to apply for the new position.
4) I have been given 2 months payment + holidays (an extra week and a half or so) as a token of goodwill - as this is Tax free, beyond the reach of psychopathic previous wives (singular) and because it costs me £450 per month to get to work, this actually represents about 5 months in real terms - I don't want to lose that.

It appears that they have not gone with the letter the law and may have compensated me appropriately. It also appears that I may not get any more by appealing.

As I alluded to in the first post, it might work out great. I am hoping to take over a business at the start of June - although this is not certain by any means - so I might be getting paid to play golf for the next three months. I am not really bitter at the way it has panned out, but if thought I had been shafted, I would feel different.

Would it be a good point to write to the HR Manager asking why they didn't follow there own procedures ?

I dunno about unfair dismissal, but I think you can spread a redundancy payment over 2 years if over £30k and avoid the tax.

I would say it can't do any harm. There's a chance they might give you some ammunition you could use as a way of negotiating up your settlement (at a risk they might reduce it of course).

Any redeundancy pay I believe only legally has to be at the stautory weekly sum of £135 or something. They do not have to pay the weekly some of your actual salary?

I may be getting confused with pay due when a company goes under?

You only get one lot of £30k allowance per employer / employment.

Sorry to hear the news, Andy. Must be rotten, that.

Trouble is if you go down the legal route, these things have a habit of sticking on you record and no future employer would want to touch you with a barge pole. I imagine it's hard but take it in your stride and channel your angst into trying to find another job. CV's sent out to all and sundry and register at any relevant agencies. No good leaving under a cloud, as you never know who you may come across in the future. It wouldn't hurt, though, to ask a few questions to the HR bod. Are you part of a Union? Also, perhaps phone up the DWP and see what SRP you are entitled to (if any), although I wouldn't hold your breath.

It's like getting sent off with a red card and not knowing the reason

Not a very kind way to handle it imo

I have an letter stating that you will receive.......and the £'s are quoted.

Under what circumstances can they withdraw this ?

They can't.

Unless you beat up the MD, or similar, then because you've got a piece of paper saying they will pay you £10.56, then they have to pay you £10.56.