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 Post subject: Port Vale On The Brink
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 16:20 
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Sir Stormtrooper
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Verrry worrying times for my club. I wish all we had to deal with is the catastrophe of finishing 5th in the Premier League :lol:

Quote:
Vale boss Micky Adams said: "I'm massively disappointed with what's going on. I think it's going to get worse before it's going to get better.

"If the rumours are true then tomorrow morning instead of pushing for the play-offs, we need to win games to stay in the League."


Quote:
Port Vale have failed to pay their players' wages for February.


Quote:
The club has fallen behind on repayments of a Stoke-on-Trent City Council loan believed to be around £1.8m.

Port Vale are required to make repayment at a rate of approximately £19,000 a month, but on Monday Stoke-on-Trent City Council announced that the club had paid only part of the February instalment.

They had earlier revealed the Valiants were late with both December and January repayments.


Quote:
shirt sponsor Harlequin is currently suing the club over the repayment of another loan


Quote:
Vale's fans have been campaigning for the removal of the board and former chairman Peter Miller resigned as a director earlier this week, meaning the board has fewer than the four directors required by law to allow the club to function properly.


An unpaid tax bill, transfer embargo, now todays reports of unpaid players, law suits, unlawful directorship, trouble for the want of 19k a month. Luckily even the points deduction gives us an 11 point buffer zone to relegation, but oh my my... :?


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 Post subject: Re: Port Vale On The Brink
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 16:32 
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Dumbledore

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FISO 7:
Score: 98
Position: 176
So sorry to hear about your clubs troubles...it does make finishing 4th or not look very trival.


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 Post subject: Re: Port Vale On The Brink
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 16:33 
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Dumbledore
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What annoys me about Port Vale is that they have enough points so that even with a 10
point deduction, they will stay up.

Seems that clubs can choose the best time to go into admin :?:


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 Post subject: Re: Port Vale On The Brink
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 16:42 
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FISO 7:
Score: 98
Position: 176
To be fair it isn't rule that going into admin shoul result in relegation

Talk aboutt kicking a club when they are down


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 Post subject: Re: Port Vale On The Brink
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 16:52 
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Grumpy Old Dan
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Yeah, I never got that attitude. The 10-point deduction was brought in when Leicester went into administration and got promoted in the same season, IIRC - fair enough that that shouldn't happen, but to insist on a club being relegated (or starting the following season on -10 as I have heard suggested) is just, like em says, kicking the supporters when they're down.

Commiserations, karrde, my team (Cambridge United) went through the same a few seasons ago and are still struggling to make ends meet, it's a tough world for the smaller clubs. Hope Port Vale come through this.


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 Post subject: Re: Port Vale On The Brink
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 16:54 
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Sir Stormtrooper
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Judio wrote:
What annoys me about Port Vale is that they have enough points so that even with a 10
point deduction, they will stay up.

Seems that clubs can choose the best time to go into admin :?:


There is no choice about this. They have been trying to find investment for months, it simply seems that this is when the clock and the money has run out. They havent chosen a time to stop paying the players :evil: glad youre annoyed about it all though.

With our form we were looking very good playoff candidates. So taking a 10 point deduction now is a horrible time.


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 Post subject: Re: Port Vale On The Brink
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 16:55 
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FISO 7:
Score: 145
Position: 118

FISO Goals:
Score: 58
Position: 14
I think the 10 point penalty is (sort of) a punishment for 'cheating', i.e. spending more than your divisional opponents who are being careful to balance the books.

Good luck to Port Vale (but not the owners)


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 Post subject: Re: Port Vale On The Brink
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 16:57 
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FISO 7:
Score: 165
Position: 61
Karrde wrote:
Verrry worrying times for my club. I wish all we had to deal with is the catastrophe of finishing 5th in the Premier League :lol:



Agree, its what drives me mad, the prem makes so much money and part of that should be used to support the pyramid, its not charity it makes business sense, to keep interest in the game we need all the clubs that make up our leagues to survive.
It is a unique thing and if we lose it will be dreadful and not just for fans of clubs involved but all lovers of game in England


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 Post subject: Re: Port Vale On The Brink
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 16:59 
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Dumbledore

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FISO 7:
Score: 98
Position: 176
It wouldn't hurt for all he prem teams to put 1 mil each into a crisis fund for the smaller clubs to help them out.....cause in five years or less this could happen to one of them.....

I really hope port vale survive


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 Post subject: Re: Port Vale On The Brink
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 17:03 
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Sir Stormtrooper
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murf wrote:
I think the 10 point penalty is (sort of) a punishment for 'cheating', i.e. spending more than your divisional opponents who are being careful to balance the books.

Good luck to Port Vale (but not the owners)


This isnt like a Leeds or Leicester where there have been massive over payments, a situation where living beyond their means with salaries and transfer fees is routine. All clubs at this level are operating with a wafer thin edge, one blip or unforeseen problem and just about any club here could find themselves screwed one month. This could happen to anyone, expecially when youre talking such small sums that tip the balance.

The owners arent brilliant, but I dont see them as having cheated to gain an edge on our rivals. I mean, the big news today is a 19k bill that we have stuggled to pay for example. It takes so little to go wrong at this level before you cant pay the players one month.

To say its been chosen as the "right time" though is insulting and ignorant.


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 Post subject: Re: Port Vale On The Brink
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 17:09 
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FISO 7:
Score: 98
Position: 176
If a club like man city went tits up I would have no sympathy

I have never seen port vale buy players they can't affford or pay wages that take the piss....in my 30 odd years as a football fan...

As I say I hope port vale survive


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 Post subject: Re: Port Vale On The Brink
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 17:24 
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em9999 wrote:
It wouldn't hurt for all he prem teams to put 1 mil each into a crisis fund for the smaller clubs to help them out.....cause in five years or less this could happen to one of them.....

I really hope port vale survive


Simple

Every time a player renogotiates a deal, instead of the Million going to the agent it can go into this fund :D


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 Post subject: Re: Port Vale On The Brink
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 17:27 
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FISO Baron
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FISO 7:
Score: 145
Position: 118

FISO Goals:
Score: 58
Position: 14
em9999 wrote:
It wouldn't hurt for all he prem teams to put 1 mil each into a crisis fund for the smaller clubs to help them out.....


Have you seen the size of the parachute payments to relegated teams? Way more than chipping in £1m each.

Also a big whack of the TV money goes into the pyramid - maybe not enough. I agree with mike:

mikeg13 wrote:
the prem makes so much money and part of that should be used to support the pyramid, its not charity it makes business sense, to keep interest in the game we need all the clubs that make up our leagues to survive.
It is a unique thing and if we lose it will be dreadful and not just for fans of clubs involved but all lovers of game in England


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 Post subject: Re: Port Vale On The Brink
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 17:28 
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FISO 7:
Score: 98
Position: 176
Anything that takes mony away from football agents is a great idea


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 Post subject: Re: Port Vale On The Brink
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 17:29 
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FISO 7:
Score: 164
Position: 67
Emm, give it a rest.
City have the money to buy who they want and pay them what they do.
Where the money comes from makes no difference (FFP aside of course).

They can afford it, so be it. Good luck to them.


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 Post subject: Re: Port Vale On The Brink
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 17:33 
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FISO 7:
Score: 165
Position: 61
Karrde wrote:

The owners arent brilliant, but I dont see them as having cheated to gain an edge on our rivals. I mean, the big news today is a 19k bill that we have stuggled to pay for example. It takes so little to go wrong at this level before you cant pay the players one month.



Its just wrong on so many levels, some of our (Afc) players earn that in a day, would think our program sales exceed Vale gate receipts, but sadly media more interested in a non event England captain than the life blood of game, that clubs like Vale are.
An answer has to be found, dont mean handing out money to allow daft running of clubs to happen, but proper rules that are policed, a football bank set up funded by prem turn over to start with, so that clubs can when needed get finance at a very good rate. FA cup money prizes for each division below championship for team/s that go the furthest.


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 Post subject: Re: Port Vale On The Brink
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 17:34 
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FISO 7:
Score: 98
Position: 176
I don't. See the need with all the money in football for any team to go under....parachute payments are all well and good but it ain't just relegated teams that suffer woes.

The lower division teams really do not get a good deal...thjey are the heart and soul of british football and they are home to real fans....premiership teams would do well to remember this


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 Post subject: Re: Port Vale On The Brink
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 17:36 
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Sir Stormtrooper
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mikeg13 wrote:
An answer has to be found, dont mean handing out money to allow daft running of clubs to happen, but proper rules that are policed, a football bank set up funded by prem turn over to start with, so that clubs can when needed get finance at a very good rate. FA cup money prizes for each division below championship for team/s that go the furthest.


Even from the side of the fence that I sit, this is the problem. The danger would be that clubs would push their limits even further if they had that safety net. So Im not sure about an emergency fund. I am all for a slightly better distribution of wealth in the first place though, even 2-5% would probably take a lot of the pressure away. As you say, its not charity, it makes sense.


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 Post subject: Re: Port Vale On The Brink
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 17:36 
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FISO Baron
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FISO 7:
Score: 145
Position: 118

FISO Goals:
Score: 58
Position: 14
Karrde wrote:
murf wrote:
I think the 10 point penalty is (sort of) a punishment for 'cheating', i.e. spending more than your divisional opponents who are being careful to balance the books.

Good luck to Port Vale (but not the owners)


This isnt like a Leeds or Leicester where there have been massive over payments, a situation where living beyond their means with salaries and transfer fees is routine. All clubs at this level are operating with a wafer thin edge, one blip or unforeseen problem and just about any club here could find themselves screwed one month. This could happen to anyone, expecially when youre talking such small sums that tip the balance.

The owners arent brilliant, but I dont see them as having cheated to gain an edge on our rivals. I mean, the big news today is a 19k bill that we have stuggled to pay for example. It takes so little to go wrong at this level before you cant pay the players one month..


I deliberately put 'cheating' in quotes. It may not be intentional but the club are obviously living beyond their means or they wouldn't be wracking up debts.

Lets take the situation of a hypothetical other club in an identical starting position in your league from last summer - difference being that they saw what could happen and so sold / failed to buy players last summer. Therefore they are breaking even but will have had less success on the pitch than Port Vale Therefore a 10 point penalty is some form of balance of that effect.


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 Post subject: Re: Port Vale On The Brink
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 17:42 
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But that hypothetical position isnt really an accurate one. The more realistic position to ask is that if club A and club B start the season in similar positions. Club A suffer an unforeseen event out of their control and lose what in the wider word is a small sum. Club B dont have that event. Has club A lived beyond their means, or has club B just been lucky to stay on the razors edge a month longer?

Im not protesting the points deduction (if) we do go into administration. I agree with that in principle because of the advantages gained from going to administration and surviving to the other side of it. I will protest the stigma that we have gained an advantage over our rivals through financial unfair play to this point though. I certainly resent the ignorant notion that we would have intentionally chosen this time to do this. The sums involved are so small, almost any club could be in the same position but for ever so slight differences in circumstances.


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 Post subject: Re: Port Vale On The Brink
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 17:43 
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Dumbledore

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FISO 7:
Score: 98
Position: 176
If you want to see a club not living within its means take a good hard look at the premiership and at man city..what they are doing is a disgrace....

Its time to stop clubs running in such a way...else this is all going to end in tears....


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 Post subject: Re: Port Vale On The Brink
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 17:50 
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FISO 7:
Score: 145
Position: 118

FISO Goals:
Score: 58
Position: 14
em9999 wrote:
If you want to see a club not living within its means take a good hard look at the premiership and at man city..what they are doing is a disgrace....

Its time to stop clubs running in such a way...else this is all going to end in tears....


City ARE living within their means. They are the playthings of rich owners who have almost unlimited means. It is like moaning that somebody's Rolls Royce doesn't pay its way.


(Having said that, I agree with FFP, football has to have some form of equality)


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 Post subject: Re: Port Vale On The Brink
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 17:52 
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FISO 7:
Score: 98
Position: 176
What ever happened to running a club on income not the credit of a rich man


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 Post subject: Re: Port Vale On The Brink
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 17:55 
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FISO 7:
Score: 164
Position: 67
They have an owner that is bank rolling them. So be it.

City have more than helped Arsenal balance their books/make healthy profits with their over inflated transfer fees. You should show a bit more gratitude ;)

It's hard to know how to deal with it. All business (inc football clubs) are run on the edge of existence. Give them any sort of safety net, and they will take things to that level/extreme.

Haven't Portsmouth been ino administration about 4 times? How? Why?
Yet they're still bringing in players on loan that they can't afford.


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 Post subject: Re: Port Vale On The Brink
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 17:58 
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Em, youre really making a completely different issue here. While I appreciate your support for my club, I dont want to have the plight of just about all league 2 clubs living on a razors edge being compared to inequality between premier league clubs.

Our players arent getting paid today, they are not on stupid wages. They are living month to month just as you, me and the clubs down there are. Today we get a squad of honest guys who are wondering if they can pay their mortgage this month. Its a different world entirely.

City may have won the lottery, and may one day have problems if the squillionaires get bored and go home, but at the moment that money is there and its to be spent as they see fit. Its arguably ugly, but its their business.


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 Post subject: Re: Port Vale On The Brink
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 17:59 
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FISO 7:
Score: 98
Position: 176
Sorry I'm hijacking this thread with having a dig at man city...its about port vale...I will cease with immediate affect


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 Post subject: Re: Port Vale On The Brink
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 18:35 
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I feel your pain :(


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 Post subject: Re: Port Vale On The Brink
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 18:51 
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Probably even worse for you Barry. We havent fallen so far. At least is always a real shadow at our level. I cant imagine the contrast between the highs and current low for Rangers!


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 Post subject: Re: Port Vale On The Brink
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 18:59 
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Karrde wrote:
Probably even worse for you Barry. We havent fallen so far. At least is always a real shadow at our level. I cant imagine the contrast between the highs and current low for Rangers!



they're more my "team of choice" rather than me being a diehard bluenose, so trust me, it'll be worse for you!


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 Post subject: Re: Port Vale On The Brink
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 19:00 
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Dumbledore
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You ask any accountant about running a business
that spends between 80 and 120 percent of its income on

Wages !!!!!


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