Not my words but those of Aunty http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15868793

As you've seen from other threads, I'm a strong believer that migration to the UK must be cut and fast. Some may think this is a racist viewpont (which does more harm than good because most genuine people are scared to discuss the topic) whilst others may think that I subscribe to the Daily Mail. Neither is right.

Now don't get me wrong there's a good chunk of our social underbelly that is a disgrace, living off benefits. I find these people an embarrasment whilst the work ethic of the genuine asylum seekers is usually first class. I have no beef with the people coming here to better themselves. Indeed, Britain in the past has been, to an extent, buoyed by waves of immigration but the last time a net 1/4 million set foot on these shore in any year was probably the Roman invasion. Probably an exaggeration but you see where I am coming from.

Anyway my beef is this. The country is bankrupt. We are constantly being told that :-

a) we've no money
b) the NHS is struggling to cope
c) there are not enough council homes for people to live in (what's the waiting list ?)
d) green belt land is under threat to build more houses
e) invariably when we do build it's on flood planes
f) infrastucture is poor and the roads and motorway networks are crumbling and overcrowded.

So what do we do ? Let an eye watering 1/4 of a million people into the country. That's a city the size of Newcastle. EACH YEAR. We are the fouth most crowded country in the world already. Any migrants will want a home and a job and will expect to be educated and cared for. Should no job be available they will expect benefits. Fair do's but who pays ? Things just don't seem to stack up.
Someone tell me I am being a blithering idiot who's pint glass is half empty

The UK is about the 13th most crowded country in the world. The rank of 4 came from Migration Watch who said they had omitted a lot of countries more crowded than the UK.

Thought a few facts might help. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/eu-migrants-good-for-uk-economy-1759279.html

So, to sum up, you're not against genuine asylum seekers, nor do you have any beef with people moving here to earn themselves a better life. That more or less leaves illegal immigrants - or more or less what most reasonable people would have as a viewpoint. Historically, being a venue for immigrants is a sign of a vibrant economy. You certainly don't want to be living in a nation with declining demographics and net emigration - that's called a slow death.

We should actually be thankful that people still want to come here to work. Last Friday night in the centre of Manchester I was stood behind 3 young lads, swigging their cider and zinfandel blush wine ( ), making racist comments to the guy serving them in Burger King. He quite probably wasn't even an immigrant, but I daresay many immigrants do do the kind of crappy, low-paid jobs that many Brits shirk from because it's better to demand their entitlements. Immigrants, by and large, will expect to earn their home and their health and education services.

This country needs to give the slothful a kick up the arse rather than "immigrants" a kick out the door.

El Pappje - you've brought race into it. I'm talking numbers and costs. AMc has posted a positive link which I've read but then you've jumped straight on the race bus. I saw your original comment and applauded you for it. So I'll put it another way :-

PS If 10 million people caucasian people want to move to the UK to better themselves, would you agree ?

+1

If they are either ready & willing to do that for themselves, yes.

I wasn't intending to bring race into the topic deliberately, it was more the illustration of someone working hard in a pretty mundane job for small rewards and the contrast between such people and the 3 muppets giving the abuse that I witnessed. That would still stand if the guy had been Polish or whatever.

If we do leave aside the immigration/race connection, there should be no reason why most immigrants should be a burden on the State. The argument isn't helped by idiots like Theresa May standing up with her crass comments about dogs keeping people from being deported. Ken Clarke was right to rain on her parade. The fact is, it's ridiculous how control of the process has been lost such that talk of dogs is a keenly-debated point in matters of permissible residence in the UK. It's not just us though - one of my good friends moved to the US and has married his half-American partner (who owns a US passport). To get his visa/green card/whatever, one of the things he had to do was to fill a side of A4 on how & why he loved his partner. That's the kind of crap you can't seriously put on paper and leads people to talk about stuff like sharing the care and love of a pet. Which then gets used to tarnish immigrants in general.

I don't rate Ken Clarke and Theresa May is just a bumbling blonde. Completely useless. The thing is, it's all very well letting people into the country who's intentions are good but even though they may hold down a job and work, where do we all live ? Where are all the houses ? What happens to those either unfortunate families unable to find council housing or unable to afford a house ? The landlords must be rubbing ther hands with glee. A pool of cheap European labour also keeps the average wages down, which is very handy for the fat cat bosses.

I'm also seeing Hong Kong or Monaco without the glamour 20 years down the line. Everyone living in flats. Have you seen the new houses being built ? Tiny. Couldn't swing a cat and in those things worse is to come IMO to find everyone a home. We're going back to Victorian times.

I strongly believe in Thomas Malthus and even though world population is a separate debate (and that's spiralling out of control too), the same logistics apply here.

Yes, it's called a conservative manifesto.

Do not think for one minute they find cutting left right and centre "painful" - it is the very thing they came into politics for. They absolutely love it. They can't believe their luck.

This country is stupidly ovecrowded.... in places.

Not sure if 13th is England or the UK/GB. The UK has lots of barely populated areas such as 2/3 of Scotland and much of Wales. Bits of England are less well populated too but there are always cities not too far away to balance it (most of northern England) and then you get the black hole of population density that is London.

The immigrants tend to move to cities as a rule although rural areas are getting more East Euopeans who are often wanted for their work ethic. All a bit of a generalisation based on my observation.

Not sure what my point is except - why do so many (of you / natives and immigrants?) choose to live in overcrowded areas.???? I don't want people to spread out into the less populated bit (we need our green space) but that is what is happening due to population increases (steady but high immigration, decreasing emigration and birth rates exceeding death rates) making the cities less and less pleasant places and encouraging the 'escape to the country' mentality.

Why do they come here. -

BRITISH OLD AGED PENSIONER (bearing in mind they worked hard and paid their Income Tax and National Insurance contributions to the British government all their working life). Weekly allowance: £106.00

IMMIGRANTS/REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN (No Income Tax and National Insurance contribution whatsoever). Weekly allowance: £250.00

BRITISH OLD AGED PENSIONER Weekly Spouse allowance: £25.00
IMMIGRANTS/REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN Weekly Spouse allowance: £225.00

BRITISH OLD AGED PENSIONER Additional weekly hardship allowance £0.00
ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS/REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN Additional weekly hardship allowance £100.00. A British old age pensioner is no less hard up than an illegal immigrant/refugee yet receives nothing

BRITISH OLD AGED PENSIONER TOTAL YEARLY BENEFIT £6,000
ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS/REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN TOTAL YEARLY BENEFIT: £29,900 .

No doubt the hard core Politically Correct Moderators on Fiso will view this as an attack on Immigrants, legal or otherwise and condemm this post to the Bin, but it's only a statement of fact.

There was a bit in the Inde this morning about the EDL joining forces with a spin-off of the BNP to contest the upcoming Council elections.

If they can get their act in order, and shake off the racist tag, these guys will get a significant number of votes IMO.

It is not fact though. Where does your figure of 250 quid a week come from? The 225 quid? The 100?

They have linked with the British Freedom party. The EDL will vanish into nothing and the British Freedom party will get no seats and very few votes. They cannot shake off the racist tag as that is their sole reason for existing.

This is a leaflet from the Central London Advice Service for Asylum Seekers/Refugees. It explains how Asylum Sekkers/Refugees are entitled to claim amongst other things the likes of:

Social fund
Disability Living Allowance
Attendance Allowance
Invalid Care Allowance
Severe Disablement Allowance
Non-contributory incapacity benefit
Working Families' Tax Credit
Disabled Person's Tax Credit
Child Benefit

http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/pdfs/roap-benefits.pdf

entitled does not mean they get them.
Your figures are skewed as you compare the old age pension to a basket of other benefits which most immigrants do not get.
why did you exclude council tax benefit, disability benefits, health benefits etc for pensioners but include them for immigrants/

Are you so confient? The BNP had a huge racist tag and still got a lot of votes (at council election level anyway).

BNP got votes in a very small number of places. The British Freedom Party will no doubt attract the former NF voters but all they will really achieve is to fracture the far right vote

True but it gives out completely the wrong impression. This is why asylum seekers continue to pass through several "safe haven" countries in order to try and reach our shores. Vouchers would be a much better system IMO to help with food, clothes, etc. I don't know why we can't introduce it. It would certainly deter the Romanov and the like who send their little kids out to beg whilst benefits are fraudulently claimed and filtered conveniently back to their towns in Romania.

Maybe they come because the same myths about UK benefits get perpetuated and no one is willing to break that myth. Papers like the Mail and Express have a vested interest in keeping it going and immigrants already here have no interest in breaking it. Are there immigrants fraudulently claiming benefits? Yes there are.
Are there British born nationals fraudulently claiming benefits? Yes there are.
Let's cut fraud and not take the easy option of just blaming foreigners for everything. Europe has seen it before and the Mail supported it then.

I'm gonna have a whip round and buy you a subscription to the Mail for Xmas

Admittedly there are far too many British born nationals claiming benefits. So quite simply, unless they have a few years NIC's in the bank, give them vouchers too. Simples

A very valid point. A true asylum seeker fearing for their life would attempt to settle in the first safe country they came to.

I see no problem with vouchers for food and such.
I will be reading the Mail over Xmas as my parents love it (The Mail, not Xmas)

As a side note there are currently about 737,000 empty homes in the UK(3.22% of all homes). That is more than enough to house whoever needs housing.

Do you know whay the houses are empty - is it landlords trying to let ?

Not having doley scroungers or asylum seekers in my country cottage thank you very much



(no, I don't own one)

"Most empty homes are privately owned. Our surveys show the majority of the owners own just one or two properties. Often they are rented homes that have fallen into disrepair; sometimes the owner has inherited the property. In many cases the owner lacks the funds or the skills to repair and manage the property.

There are also many empty houses and flats owned by and often located next to businesses. Some surveys suggest that up to a fifth of all empty homes are flats above shops. Many of these would originally have provided staff accommodation, but with changing employment patterns they are no longer used. In some areas cottages were tied to agricultural work, but increasing agricultural mechanisation means they are no longer needed. It is common in these cases for the business to lack the skills to make use of the empty homes."

http://emptyhomes.com/

We also need to distinguish clearly between

Immigrants from the EC who have as much right to live and work here as you or I
Asylum seekers who are going through asylum application
Illegal immigrants

They are often discussed as if they are the same

Which we didn't realy get to vote on, did we ? Hence the mess that we find ourselves in. We signed into a messy agreement and then the former Eastern Block countries joined the EC and migration went up exponentially. Remember the woman that quetsioned Brown over this ?

Asylum sekers are just that. Shouldn't matter where they are from, so Europe should not count over America or Africa. If they are good to go then so be it. I can just imagine a load of Brits getting French jobs - France would grind to a halt on strike

There are many things we don't get to vote on

This isn't one of them - you could have voted for one of the parties against European inclusion

I agree that the major parties all agree on this issue but European immigrants are great for our economy and continue to be so

Groomyd Or Brits who choose to live in Belgium