last night i watched BBC3 10.30-11.15 this programme.
Basically a live audience watches through glass a slaughter set up from the Bolt in the head, to the slitting of throats, to the disection of the carcass, to the delivery to the butcher, to the cook , to be eaten.(cows)
All in the space of mins.
Gruesome.
As a child i would not eat meat as i felt sorry for the animals, i feel even more sorry now as it seems to me the animal does not die instantly and also i felt it senses its imminent death.
There were quite a few people crying witnessing the scenes but on the whole i was suprised that most thought it was all done humanely and would still be meat eaters.
I will still eat meat although it did distress me watching this, call me a hypocrite i guess.

Tonights show again at `10.30 is the same process but this time its lambs.
Hankerchiefs at the ready please.

Back in 1970 as a mad hippie I was crossing the Sahara on the back of trucks. The driver stopped near the border of Mauritania and what was then called the Spanish Sahara.
His partner started a fire, the driver produced a goat from the back of the truck and gave me a nearly toothless smile, before pulling a knife and slitting the goat's throat as I watched. He butchered it at lightning speed and next thing I knew was roasting it on the fire. A short while later he smiled and handed me a leg to chew on.
Those were the days. Now I just get take out.

I work for a pork company. We have a vet on site 24 hours and if any pig looks "stressed" it will not be killed. Oddly enough if the pig is stressed at the time its killed it can ruin the meat.

The kill process sounds heaps more grusome than it is in reality.

The experiment to chill them out with marijuana to keep them relaxed did not last long.

same here - but in kenya.

Just watching it now... I presume they can only stun the animal at first so that when they cut the throat the heart continues to pump blood?

I remember a time at work when one of the girls was talking about how her cat had had a load of kittens and she didnt know what to do with them, how she would cope. I made the standard jole about putting them in a bag & throwing them in the river, just to see the look on her face. Cue the typical horrified looks etc. 20mins later the girl, a famers daughter was describing in detail how a cow is hung & slit & the guts fall out.

That is one of the reasons. The animal is also 'stunned' to feel no pain or become stressed as it is 'stuck'. They go out like a light.

I've worked in and been around abattoirs and cutting plants now for the best part of 12 years. I've been involved in the meat industry for 24years as a trainee butcher, shop butcher, and in line butchery and management within a cutting plant. I'm not an expert on it at all but do have an ok knowledge of what goes on and some experience in this field.

The Abattoir on TV is a very small premises. In larger abattoirs it is much more automated. The sheep tonight was 'manually' stunned by electric to the head. It is a long time since I have seen it done that way. Modern methods include the sheep following one another along a 'race'(pathway) from the pen they were held in, in the 'lairage'. They then move onto a conveyor and at the end of the conveyor their head touches a metal panel which stuns them through electrocution. Sheep 'number2' does not notice 'Sheep1' has been stunned. The removal of the fleece (or hide on a cow) is normally done by a stripping machine. Two slaughtermen are lifted into the air, attach the hide to a machine either side of the animal, and the machine strips off the hide. The slaughtermen lower the lift and use a knife to help ease the hide from the carcass.

In the lairage all animals have to be fed and watered and allowed to behave naturally in their own groups. A vet and MHS staff inspect them prior to slaughter and of course after slaughter, to check for any signs of stress, cruelty, disease, parasites etc. In the vast majority of cases, (I would say very close to 100% from what I know and have seen)there is no problems with the animals welfare with regards to cruelty whatsoever. Stress can occasinally occur, likewise disease and parasites. It is extremely unlikely that this would not befound by the MHS (or staff) in the abattoir or cutting plant. The controls are just too tight and the slaughterman are skilled craftsman who are very proud of what they do and extremely knowledgable. If the animal is going to get stressed this is normally in transportation from the farm rather than at the abattoir. This isn't because of conditions on the lorry but just because it is the 'unknown'. Once at the abattoir they are given time to 'de-stress' prior to slaughter. This doesn't normally take long as they tend to quickly become accustomed to their 'new' surroundings.

There are of course tiny amounts of cowboys in the industry, just as in any other, that get well publicised when found out. I have never come across any yet or ever heard of any malpractice other than what I see in the media. I feel extremely confident in the slaughtering process within this country.

Normally cattle are captive bolt stunned (as on Monday night). I have also seen them stunned electrically at an abattoir in Scotland.

Pigs, I have seen electrically stunned and 'gassed' in a chamber (many at a time). I have no idea how this process works other than it involves rapidly pumping CO2 into the chamber and the animals 'die' without be stunned. I have only recently seen this happen (last month) so have not done any research or asked any questions on it as yet.

Chickens, go to sleep prior to slaughter. They are held in a darkened room and they automatically go to sleep. Somebody takes them from their crate, hangs them on a shackle and they move along a moving line which cuts their throat by a moving blade. I've been told this can run as fast as 1 a second or 3600 per hour. Its only seconds between the hanging and the blade cutting. Typically the chicken is still asleep or just starting to awake when this happens

On a personal note I just think humans will always eat meat. It is true that we could probably stop it now, if we really wanted to, as living a fruit and veg diet is of course possible. I have no problem with vegetarians whatsoever. However, I do like eating meat. I enjoy the texture, taste etc and I am sure that applies to most meat eaters. I would not eat meat if I felt the animal had been treated cruelly.

The problem I have is when I hear people talk about the process being cruel. I don't think it is. From what I have seen and know the animals have no idea that they are going to die or if they are going to be harmed. They may know its different, but they certainly don't seem to behave any different at the abattoir to what they do in their natural environment.

Not sure about the programme. Its brought up some interesting points. Just feel they wanted some more 'shock' factor when in fact I think most people seemed to have been put at ease. I think the abattoir people were particularly good, but the butchery chap seemed a bit 'amateurish' and some of the points he made were questionable. The woman from the MHS also came up with some points that weren't strictly true, but I am sure she was only trying to put something 'technical' into words the public could understand. She also seemed a little 'out of touch' on modern slaughtering methods IMO and to be honest she didn't impress me that much.

yeah yeah yeah shrews - what do you know about it!


very informative - cheers mate

Cheers Shrews... very informative.

I felt the Lambs in tonight's programme seemed under no stress whatsoever.

most horrible thread I have ever read on FISO, I can take anything but harm to animals! And yep Im a hipocrite but ffs thats horrible!

Tell me your story Mad. Were you up north visiting Lake Turkana? Out by Lamu? Very cool places. Was it also goat? My driver was celebrating a successful trip to Bir Moghrem in northern Mauritania, after some serious problems. His original cargo was set on fire by careless smoking Frenchies riding in the back. That delayed us for a day.

Out of interest CY had does a pig look stressed I guess if they were cleverer they could mimic it and live forever..

Just got this vision of pigs on spliffs....

I now have a mental image of a pig sat down chewing on it's fingernails (hooves?).

I won't eat pork again

Well, not today anyway.

i only watched the first few minutes of last nights program. i agree though .... right at the beginning the presenter and the woman inspector (?) were looking at the pigs just before they were due to be slaughtered and the presenter asks the inane question "do people feel squeamsih about pigs because they almost seem to have a human quality?"

apart from a cr-p attempt to add shock value, the camera swung over to the pigs which were eating some muck off the floor. i guess to be fair that does represent some humans ....

I lived in Cameroon for 6 months and goat was one of the most readily available meats. You soon become sanitised to all the throat slitting etc. I went to a ceremony where a boy moves to manhood. Part of that involved draining the goats blood on to a seat in which the boy has to sit 3 times and other strange stuff that I don't recollect due to the local grog. It's also where I learnt to wring a chickens neck without pulling its head off. I've worked on a few farms and I've seen and smelt some pretty stomach churning things. It's not quite lunchtime yet so I won't elaborate

Mrs Demo is a vegetarian and her philosophy is 'if you're not prepared to kill it then you shouldn't eat it' which you can't really argue with. It's tricky when it comes to the kids diet though.

No idea, i work "way further down the production line" so to speak. The trouble is question is called PSE. Assuming you are interested here you go:

One of the biggest pork quality problems is pale, soft, exudative (PSE) pork. Physiologically the quality of the meat is dependent upon its ultimate pH, which is determined by conversion of glycogen to lactic acid within the meat (Berg, 2001). A pig's genetic makeup plays a role in the incidence of PSE pork, but the amount and type of stress placed on the pig prior to slaughter is the main factor. Loading and unloading, transporting, mixing of pigs, and slaughterhouse practices are all aspects that should be managed to minimize stress and in doing so produce high quality pork.

As long as we dont eat good looking animals im all for it! Hey,I had to kill a mouse the other day, dozy by the poison. It wasnt a nice experience.It couldnt run away, just stared at me Im interpretating that look as a put me out of my misery one. Poor sod.All he ever did was to chew through some cables.

pouzar - check your pm's.

Mad... PM me what you PM'd Pouzar...

just being nosey... sorry.

no - it's about you

Dixie and sheep!
Never would have guessed it mad.