The new season is just days away … but internet woes at home (damn you Virgin Media) continue to prevent me from posting anything meaningful on the forum. Technicians have promised to return on Thursday, so if the Fantasy Gods are smiling, I will do too. There is a huge backlog of overdue tinkering to catch up on … although maybe a blessing that I’m starting from largely a clean slate. In the mean time, I just wanted to extend my warmest thanks to Romyn – both for his contribution and co-ordination of the 5AS recruitment thread and also for the excel wizardry that has made this side game what it is today

Testament to the popularity of the format, the 5AS H2H has continued to grow from 20 teams playing each other twice at its inception to just shy of 40 in this season’s incarnation. The only downside is that there is no opportunity for the revenge fixture! I’m enthused to recognise so many seasoned stalwarts continue to pledge allegiance to their original teams … it will make for some interesting battles with this year’s new comers and young hotshots.

The main reason for this post was to clarify the contentious issue of the 4pt transfer penalty. The 5AS H2H was not designed to model the main FPL game. Perhaps a useful analogy would be to compare the overall 5AS to the Premier League and the H2H to a cup competition. It would not be uncommon for a team confined to mid-table obscurity to focus on the FA / Carling Cup in the hope of some silverware, even if this was to the detriment of their overall position in the League. It is a manger’s prerogative to rest / rotate players in the pursuit of one title or the other.

Would you begrudge Blackpool if they fielded a reserve side against Utd in order to preserve their first team for midweek cup run (well maybe, yes … but dems the rules!). Equally, most would respect a dogged display by Everton as their put out largely the same eleven in all competitions. Not everyone has the embarrassment of riches enjoyed by Man City and can afford to put out a “world class” side (by virtue of their bank balance, if not performance …) regardless of fixture congestion.

If anything, the absence of the 4pt penalty is more a leveller. The mark of a truly great 5AS team is one that can juggle the demands of both competitions, scoring highly on a weekly basis (H2H) as well as consistently over the course of the season (Overall 5AS). Are the Killer Bee’s really the Barcelona of the 5AS world? Or just a side game one trick pony?

This is my final position and the issue will not be open to a public vote / poll. I appreciate there will be a number amongst you that will be disappointed but hopefully not disheartened by this decision.

The success of the 5AS H2H is driven largely by the tribalism of the teams involved … long may the banter continue!

Whatever you have decided is good with the Totem Poles.

Our Statement of Intent is to Individaully try to achieve the highest FPL rank we can and maybe win a few 5AS fixtures along the way.

Will there be an overall 5AS game? otherwise, if there is only the FA cup and no premier league, it negates you ideas you suggested (I agree in principle, but not in the current execution).

Will go with the law of the land of course, the side games are the spice of life.

*scraps plans to do 11 transfers in week 2*

Welcome back Krispy, we're very pleased to see you and I'm sure we'd all like to endorse what you've said about Romyn 's efforts,especially in kickstarting this season's 5AS competition thread off on FPL launch day on 12th July, as well as offering new teams assistance in designing avatars for them, (backed up by a welcome offer of support if needed from MarquisMark) resulting in a record breaking entry to the maximum number possible,as well as some 7000 views of the recruitment thread which speaks volumes for the interest this sidegame has attracted,and brought together for the first time a new generation of Fiso FPLers,which augurs well for the future of the 5AS in particular,as I predict that next season,there won't be the quite the same effort needed to put everything together as teams will be keen to secure one of the 38 places.

Naturally,we'll all respect the decision you've made regarding the non-deduction of transfer penalties this season.

Established 5AS teams are used to this,and new teams will get used to it. However,as there's to be no vote/poll taken on this issue,and you've been away from the action on the 5AS thread at the end of last season and beginning of this,I feel obliged to express the hope that you will reconsider this for the following season,as you say your decision is final for this season.

As you've said above that you anticipate "there'll be a number of you disappointed at this decision",I doubt very much that you realise the strength of feeling on this matter among the active players, so many of whom have expressed their hopes that transfer penalties would be deducted this season that I'd go so far as to say that view is almost unanimous,perhaps with the exception of yourself and Romyn !

Since of the nearly 200 players of this game this season,you are the only 2 whose views count,we'll just have to live with it.

I still can't see many players forfeiting their FPL overall league positions to order to win their 5AS ties though, so it surely boils down to any potential increased administrative workload,which Romyn's said is of no consequence,though perhaps you disagree.

I hope that you won't mind observations which are intended to be constructive,rather than critical,as I'm one of the keenest supporters of this 5AS sidegame,which greatly enhances the pleasure of playing FPL.

You refer to "the overall 5AS" and the "5AS H2H",but whilst the game may have started off in that way,I'm sure that nearly all of us regard the 5AS H2H as the only game we're playing,as well as being of outstanding quality.

If by "overall 5AS" you mean the tables Andy Barrell used to keep,for whose efforts he must be applauded,I honestly don't think anyone took any notice of them,apart maybe from the top 3 teams in the table for a bit of banter.

To me anyway,there's only ONE 5AS game in town,the 5AS H2H,and personally I'd like to see it redesignated simply as the 5AS, to avoid the confusion which sometimes arises, especially among newcomers to the game.

Now that we seem to have reached the optimum,maximum, number of 38 teams perhaps future consideration could be given to a league system of promotion and relegation,to sustain interest amongst those teams not doing too well in the main league as the season progresses, which I would contend would be a more practical "leveller" ?

That's my 4 pennyworth anyway,and I shall now look forward to what promises to be one of the best ever 5AS competitions we've had,as the mix of personalties and new talent seems certain to provide intense competition and a great deal of fun

My view on the transfer penalty issue, for what it's worth (nothing, I know!).
I believe that 4-point hits are rarely taken thinking only about the week immediately ahead, which is why I've always thought that it is right to ignore transfer hits in the context of single-week-score based side-games. One or two very notable exceptions to this point-hit mentality have been evident in relation to the 5AS, but they're still a small minority.



I'd like to see you try and make a fixture list where you can play 37 other teams twice each, within a 38 week season

How did you manage to put those words in my mouth while my back was turned ?

Well,to get revenge we'll have to either remove half the teams that have signed up or get 76 teams then. Simples

.... as to some of grob's other comments.

Overall 5AS vs H2H:

5AS and H2H are related in a similar fashion, in my mind anyway, as the FA are to FIFA, and it's a system that I quite like. The umbrella that is 5AS allows people to create other games if they want using the player base that is the collection of 5AS teams. AndyBarrell's Overall league and H2H individuals were examples of that and those, and other ideas, may be used again. (I might try and do something with them as I already have the data but I said that last year and just didn't get the time)

Transfer points:

I'm sure Krispy is well aware of the differing views on this and I think he made his reasoning fairly clear - H2H is a game with it's own particular rules, as all side-games have, and in this one deductions don't count. There's no good reason I can see that they should - although it doesn't bother me that much either way. I don't really understand why some people think it's unfair ... is it unfair when it's only your Forwards' score counts in a particular event in the Decathlon when you may have a weak front-line? ... was it fair when you were leading a Leg in the Global Challenge that you hit a tiny island and things went pair-shaped? That to me is the fun of side-games - if everything just followed the same scoring rules it would be extremely boring.

More than 38:

I think probably 38 is enough. The idea of promotion/relegation leagues again makes it similar to other games - reds' Divisionals and Dixie's H2H. If the numbers got above 38 a re-think would be needed but if done the result should be someting where every team starts at the same position and has the same chance of winning out when the season comes to a close.

2p

I disagree, as the other games you mention aren't TEAM games,they're played as individuals.

It's about the "tribal" team spirit that develops within the 5AS,to which Krispy made reference.

(my 1/2p)

My 0.02 Rupees.

Promotion and relegation can only happen if teams definitely reappear a following year. With individuals, you have a lot more of flexibility, with teams, you don't. We might have (say) 27 teams next time. what then?

Maybe it appears that way because people who support the status quo are less likely to make a post than those who want change, but I really don't think you can claim that almost everyone wants transfer hits included. I for one, am quite happy to keep things as they are and I consider it quite funny that anyone would play the game in such a way that would ruin their chances of a good overall finish.

If someone takes transfer hits to beat me in this game, I'll take it as a compliment

One trick pony

Edit I meant Barcelona

Thanks Krispy & Romyn, love this game and looking forward to the season. Our arch enemy Grob has put a good shift in too with helping all noobs & motivating all who have shown an interest

Good luck to all in your battle for 2nd place

It will be my first time taking part in the competition, and I want to thank in advance the people who make it happen.

I can see the point of side-games with distinct rules. I particularly like the 'vampire' variant, which sees the winner in a gameweek credited with the points total of his rival that week; that introduces a large element of luck, but it's all part of the fun.

The thing is, that sort of side game can be played without materially affecting one's week-to-week decisions in the overall FPL game.

That's not the case when a side-game doesn't mirror the main game's points deductions for extra transfers. In that case, the teams who do make large numbers of transfers (i.e. more than they would for the main game alone) have a big advantage over the teams who stick with a focus on the main game.

And I think it's a shame for FISO's main side game (I hope that's a fair description) to feature a distinction like that, greatly favouring those who prioritise the side game over the main FPL game. After all, these sub-forums are all about that main game.

It will be bizarre and disappointing to keep a focus on the main game, make just one or two transfers in preparation for a gameweek, score 100+ points, rank one of the highest in the world that week, and lose out in the 5AS head-to-head to a team that brought in 8 or 9 new players and scored well below 100 after points deductions.

As a member of the team most posters will be thinking of when they argue against the lack of point deductions I can assure you that I'm pretty sure no one made that many transfers in a week purely for 5AS.
Although with all the snow problems last year I think it is difficult to count some of those multiple transfers that were made as a typical season's occurance.

I agree. This is much ado about nothing, and should be left as it is.

Good decisive stuff Krispy - you will never get everyone to agree on this (including me) but your decision is respected and I look forward to the new season!

OK, I take that on board, along with what blahblah wrote.

And if you were one of the managers making a lot of transfers last season, your outstanding finishing position suggests you didn't make transfers to the detriment of your overall FPL game!

+1 to knulpuk's comment. The decision is respected and the hard work behind the competition is appreciated.

What if a player found that they were doing so badly in the overall FPL league (and hence in all their other mini-leagues) that they gave up on overall position, and thus were able to sacrifice their team over to unlimited transfers, for the sole purpose of having some success in this (esteemed) side-game?

Ungentlemanly? Cheating? Frowned upon? Or basically fair game?

This is all entirely hypthetical, you understand.

Errrr...

In general I think that is fair game. When Wyld first set up the 5AS (of which H2H is a sidegame itself) I don't think he envisioned it to be a vicars tea-party - but something that had a bit of bite to it every now and then - hence numptying team members (which admittedly doesn't happen that much).

However if the scenario played out as in your example then maybe the team captain would feel it doesn't sit well with his team ethos or that he wouldn't be happy with one of his team starting every week on negative points and always hoping for a stormer. Making multiple transfers doesn't guarantee good scores. With that in mind the captain might just kick him out.