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 Post subject: Dull maths
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2010, 11:39 
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When you look through the RMTs, you see a lot of comments long the lines of "x and y have opposite home/away games" or "z has good fixtures to start". However, this is somewhat done on a "finger in the air basis". I thought it would be interesting to ask: exactly how big are these edges, and how consistant are they between positions.

All of the following is based on the 08/09 results, which is the only year for which I have match by match FPL point totals. If anybody has such stats for other years, especially last year, please let me know.

It is also based on only players who played more than 60 minutes in a game (i.e. qualified for bonus points/clean sheets). This removes the impact of multiple subs who scored 1 point; to be honest though, it makes little difference to the results, as such subs have a similar impact in most games, on average.

(1) Home advantage

Unsurpringly, home advantage exists and is significant. On average, players at home score 3.81 points per game, while away they score 3.21.

What's more interesting is how that changes by position:

Code:
Pos   A   H   Tot   H Ad
Goal   3.68   3.99   3.84   0.31
Def   2.91   3.67   3.29   0.76
Mid   3.21   3.74   3.48   0.52
Att   3.65   4.17   3.92   0.53


Goalkeeper are by far the smallest - presumably what is happening here is that goalkeepers are making more saves away from home, which makes up for the goals they conceed. Defenders don't have that advantage; they get penalised by the lack of clean sheet with any compensation.

Conclusion: Being able to rotate your defenders to ensure home fixtures is a huge advantage.

(2) Quality of opposition

Again, we all know that you would rather be playing Blackpool than Chelsea. But again, how big is the differential?

I have ranked the teams seperately by their defensive and attacking qualities, based purely on average FPL points conceeded (the defensive quality is based on average points scored by the opposition midfielders and attackers, while the attacking quality is based on points scored by defenders and goalkeepers). Clearly this ignores goals scored by defenders etc., but it will do as a broad brush and is probably a better measure than purely goals scored/goals conceeded (since it is important whether a team tends to score every game, or whether they tend to score a bunch is one and none at all in others).

Code:
Rank   Goal   Def   Mid   Att   Tot
1   3.16   1.86   2.43   3.23   2.40
2   3.26   2.13   2.62   2.80   2.51
3   3.26   2.42   2.67   3.23   2.71
4   3.49   2.45   2.90   3.13   2.82
5   3.34   2.70   3.45   3.17   3.10
6   3.61   2.66   3.20   3.73   3.12
7   3.41   2.94   3.35   3.52   3.22
8   3.76   3.24   3.77   3.41   3.50
9   3.21   3.40   3.57   3.56   3.47
10   4.18   3.42   3.58   3.79   3.61
11   3.45   3.52   3.49   4.58   3.66
12   3.81   3.67   3.84   3.82   3.77
13   4.08   3.57   3.82   4.60   3.87
14   4.18   3.66   3.85   4.31   3.88
15   4.18   3.75   3.87   4.28   3.92
16   4.53   3.82   4.22   3.60   3.99
17   4.08   4.11   3.53   5.03   4.04
18   4.53   4.02   3.70   4.42   4.02
19   4.74   4.23   3.74   4.83   4.21
20   4.45   4.27   3.92   5.13   4.30
Total   3.84   3.29   3.48   3.92   3.51


Again, what is interesting here is differential. Note that these stats are based on a smallish sample of events, and hence are clearly not exact. To get a better estimate, we can use regression to work out how many points, on average, each rank is worth ('PPR', points per rank):

Code:
   Goal   Def   Mid   Att
PPR   0.077   0.118   0.068   0.102


In other words, very roughly speaking, you would expect a goalkeeper to score 0.385 points more against a 10th ranked attack than against a 5th ranked attack (on average).

Again, goalkeeper selection is far less important than defender selection. Midfielder selection is again the least important. Striker selection is, perhaps surprisingly given the home/away result, almost as important as defender selection. I'd like more data to be able to confirm this.

Conclusion: Again, being able to rotate defenders is very important.

(3) Home advantage vs Opposition Strength

Bringing those two points together, we can look at relative importance of reach factor. To do this, we calculate how big the opposition ranking difference needs to be to offset home advantage:

Code:
   Goal   Def   Mid   Att
H Ad   0.31   0.76   0.52   0.53
Ranks   4.0   6.5   7.7   5.2


In other words, we are saying that a goalkeeper being at home against a 10th ranked team is equivalent to being away to a 14th ranked teams.

Conclusion: Though both home advantage and opposition stength are important, you should be giving home advantage a stronger weighting for defenders and midfields, and opposition strength a stronger weighting for goalkeepers and strikers.

Overall conclusions:
- Goalkeepers are by far the most consistant players in terms of how much their average points vary, closely followed by midfielders - this suggests that it is more useful to have backups in defence and up front, because your GK/mids lose less than your def/str when they are playing Chelsea away;
- Being able to rotate defenders to take advantage of both home fixtures and weak opponents is more useful than being able to rotate your midfielders;
- Being able to rotate attackers by opponent is also useful; being able to rotate by home fixtures is less important.


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 Post subject: Re: Dull maths
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2010, 11:44 
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Nice work. Some interesting observations in there.


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 Post subject: Re: Dull maths
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2010, 11:45 
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Is this why I did well last season, by not always picking the home fister?

As opposed to defenders, where home games were always the main consideration.

This is for cheapies, only - obviously.


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 Post subject: Re: Dull maths
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2010, 11:49 
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As a firm believer in playing by instinct rather than by the use of stats, I'm usually pretty dismissive of this sort of thing. However this was really interesting and resulted in brief logical conclusion which I intend to use in my first season of playing FPL. Not so dull maths after all. Good stuff Xmas.

BTW how come you've stolen one of my past team names as your moniker. Given that I have unique rights to "Relegated" you may be hearing from my fantasy lawyer. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Dull maths
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2010, 12:19 
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Striker wrote:
As a firm believer in playing by instinct rather than by the use of stats, I'm usually pretty dismissive of this sort of thing. However this was really interesting and resulted in brief logical conclusion which I intend to use in my first season of playing FPL. Not so dull maths after all. Good stuff Xmas.

BTW how come you've stolen one of my past team names as your moniker. Given that I have unique rights to "Relegated" you may be hearing from my fantasy lawyer. :wink:


It's not my team name anymore. However, I've have previously used the name for years - I'll see you in court!

BTW, on the point of stats, I'm never in favour of using stats as your primary focus. The point of stats, IMO, is to check your axioms are correct. For example, I'm saying that on average midfielders don't vary much - that doesn't mean that this holds in 100% of cases. For example, it's likely Lampard is more like a striker. So you shouldn't take the stats and apply them to every case.

However, if your opinion is that home/away is the same in every position, or that it doesn't matter, or that it is always more/less important than opponent, then stats can show you are wrong. You should always be making adjustment based on your own opinion, but stats provide the best starting point before those adjustments.


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 Post subject: Re: Dull maths
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2010, 13:53 
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This is indeed interesting and I have bookmarked it to look at every time I think that bringing my 4.5m midfielder off the bench because he's playing some other relegation candidate that week is a good idea.


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 Post subject: Re: Dull maths
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2010, 22:18 
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Insightful post - I now have a headache however... :)


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 Post subject: Re: Dull maths
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2010, 00:11 
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This could be my favourite post of pre-season so far, thanks R_B_X!

Shows that keepers and midfielders points are least variable to their fixtures, and you should rotate defence and strikers more. Surely this blows the "paired goalkeepers" argument out of the water... where's the "paired defenders" thread? :P


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 Post subject: Re: Dull maths
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2010, 00:28 
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reds363 wrote:
This could be my favourite post of pre-season so far, thanks R_B_X!

I'll second that. As a bit of a stats geek myself I think this is an excellent piece of analysis. Top stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Dull maths
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2010, 01:36 
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Having been looking at this myself, I can say I drew the same conclusions (although I did find several players who score equally well both home & away as well as the occasional player who scores better on the road). In fact, I've built my defense completely around this concept (much to the chagrin of at least one of my 5AS teammates). It's also led me to another thought. Do players who score well at home unconsciously get favored over those who score equally well both home and away?

I've noticed many seem to prefer A. Cole over Vidic, which is contrary to how I would pick it. Over two seasons, Vidic has 143 home points and 138 away points (51/49%) while Cole has 173 away & 103 home (63/37%). Both have basically the same number of minutes, appearances & goals, while Vidic has more bonus and Cole more assists. So from a FPL perspective, they are essentially even, but Vidic costs less!

So why the bias? Maybe its due to health or WC hangover (I've been lax in catching up on such things), but if not, I'm wondering if maybe home points "stand-out" more in people's minds than the away points (we kind of expect defenders to do worse on the road).

To throw one more idea into the mix, I offer John Terry. His scoring breakdown of 4.0 ppa is lower by a half a point over Vidic or Cole (which is significant). But in this same time period, he has started 7 games more per season than the others. So the weeks that Cole or Vidic are sitting (for reasons other than long-term injuries), they are on your bench while Terry is still scoring. When all is said & done, Vidic & Cole will still score higher than Terry, but only slightly more and only if you know when they are hurt that they are out long enough to trade them out.

FWIW - I don't have any of these guys. I'm using the home & away defender approach that while still spending 26 points, doesn't (currently) have anyone 6.5 or higher.


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 Post subject: Re: Dull maths
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2010, 07:26 
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reds363 wrote:
This could be my favourite post of pre-season so far, thanks R_B_X!

Shows that keepers and midfielders points are least variable to their fixtures, and you should rotate defence and strikers more. Surely this blows the "paired goalkeepers" argument out of the water... where's the "paired defenders" thread? :P



I have been saying that for yonks 8-)

The point of cheap fisters is save points, CS are a bonus. So pick the game where they would make saves :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Dull maths
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2010, 08:27 
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blahblah wrote:
The point of cheap fisters is save points, CS are a bonus. So pick the game where they would make saves :roll:


Clean sheets are still more important. The best choice of opposition for a GK is the same as the best choice of opposition for DFs - it's just that size of the advantage is considerably smaller.


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 Post subject: Re: Dull maths
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2010, 08:36 
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Relegated_By_Xmas wrote:
blahblah wrote:
The point of cheap fisters is save points, CS are a bonus. So pick the game where they would make saves :roll:


Clean sheets are still more important. The best choice of opposition for a GK is the same as the best choice of opposition for DFs - it's just that size of the advantage is considerably smaller.


Sorry, but I disagree.

At home to Stoke, and at home\away to MU, I would pick the fister against MU, and a defender against Stoke. (In previous seasons.)

Stoke were likely to score, but create less shots, so less save points, but an OK chance of a CS. Most likely fister would get 2pts, same as defenders.

MU probably score, and create a load of chances, so loads of save points. Most likely fister would get 3pts, minimum; unlike defenders who would get less than 2pts. If the score was kept down, the BP's were possible, for the fister.


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 Post subject: Re: Dull maths
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2010, 10:01 
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blahblah wrote:
MU probably score, and create a load of chances, so loads of save points. Most likely fister would get 3pts, minimum; unlike defenders who would get less than 2pts. If the score was kept down, the BP's were possible, for the fister.


A lot of assumptions - I agree that this happens a lot, but the question is does it happen enough to offset the clean sheets - remembering a clean sheet is worth 4 points.

And this is a perfect example of how we can test our assumptions. We feel like MU(a) is a better fixture than Stoke (h), possibly because we have happy memories of a multi save, bonus point game. But in the long run, is it so? Let's look at points per game allowed by United and Stoke over an entire season:

Code:
Opp   H/A   Att   Def   Goal   Mid   Total
MAN   A   2.23   1.64   2.95   2.07   2.03
MAN   H   1.74   1.95   3.25   2.57   2.23
STK   A   2.73   2.62   3.00   2.59   2.66
STK   H   4.53   3.51   3.42   3.36   3.67


Stoke at home is better fixture for everybody.

In the second table in my OP, there's a list of points scored by GKs and DFs against teams. Note the coerrelation between the two - a good opponent for a GK is a good opponent for a DF.


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 Post subject: Re: Dull maths
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2010, 10:27 
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I think that it depends on the team. There is little point comparing the relative performances of the opposing teams, as the Fister is picked for a reason :wink:

Brum did not keep that many CS, if you look, but Hart did better than their defenders, ditto Jansen.


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 Post subject: Re: Dull maths
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2010, 10:52 
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blahblah wrote:
I think that it depends on the team. There is little point comparing the relative performances of the opposing teams, as the Fister is picked for a reason :wink:

Brum did not keep that many CS, if you look, but Hart did better than their defenders, ditto Jansen.


Whether Hart did better than Brum defenders has nothing to do with the question of whether you would rather be playing against Stoke or Man Utd. I agree that the keeper get SOME extra save points against United, which is why goalkeeper points vary less than defenders. But it's not enough to offset the clean sheet points, especially as a thrashing is possible against United.

The point of the game is to get as many points as possible. Goalkeepers get more points against Stoke than against United, so you'd rather play Stoke.


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 Post subject: Re: Dull maths
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2010, 10:52 
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Why is there currently a trend on this forum to call a keeper a fister?!

If you google the word fister you generally find something other than goalkeepers!!! Some keepers have large hands and could do serious damage to someone elses anatomy!


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 Post subject: Re: Dull maths
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2010, 10:54 
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thebillfella wrote:
Why is there currently a trend on this forum to call a keeper a fister?!


I think it is largely just blahblah with this perversion. Same happened last year with Fabregas being called Sex by one or two. Ignore the freaks and hopefully it will go away and not catch on :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Dull maths
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2010, 10:55 
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Just dug this out, and it shows that CS are not everything for fisters. How many of us had Jensen, last season? (Does anyone have his PpG last season?)

Hahneman 4.1PpG, from 8 CS
Given 3.7PpG from 11 CS

1 Man Utd 38 19
2 Chelsea 38 18
3 Liverpool 38 17
4 Aston Villa 38 15
5 Arsenal 38 14
6 Stoke City 38 14
7 Blackburn 38 13
8 Tottenham 38 13
9 Fulham 38 12
10 Manchester City 38 11
11 Birmingham 38 11
12 Everton 38 11
13 Wolves 38 8
14 West Ham Utd 38 8
15 Wigan Athletic 38 8
16 Sunderland 38 7
17 Hull City 38 7
18 Portsmouth 38 7
19 Bolton 38 5
20 Burnley 38 3


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 Post subject: Re: Dull maths
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2010, 10:56 
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murf wrote:
thebillfella wrote:
Why is there currently a trend on this forum to call a keeper a fister?!


I think it is largely just blahblah with this perversion. Same happened last year with Fabregas being called Sex by one or two. Ignore the freaks and hopefully it will go away and not catch on :wink:



It came from a forum I used years ago, and a discussion about the americanisation of Football - Socker. Seeing as they have starting punching rather than catching shots, Fister seemed like a good name for them :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Dull maths
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2010, 11:14 
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thebillfella wrote:
Why is there currently a trend on this forum to call a keeper a fister?!

If you google the word fister you generally find something other than goalkeepers!!! Some keepers have large hands and could do serious damage to someone elses anatomy!


Thanks for that image...


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 Post subject: Re: Dull maths
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2010, 11:41 
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thebillfella wrote:
Why is there currently a trend on this forum to call a keeper a fister?!

If you google the word fister you generally find something other than goalkeepers!!! Some keepers have large hands and could do serious damage to someone elses anatomy!


What did you tell your Mrs when she discovered your internet history folder was full of links to 'fisting' websites?

'I was just trying to do some research on which goalkeeper to pick for my fantasy football team love, honest!' :D


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 Post subject: Re: Dull maths
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2010, 11:43 
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johnF wrote:
What did you tell your Mrs when she discovered your internet history folder was full of links to 'fisting' websites?

'I was just trying to do some research on which goalkeeper to pick for my fantasy football team love, honest!' :D



Glad to be of help :lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Dull maths
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2010, 12:15 
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dont forget to factor in penalty save points for certain keepers. made quite a difference to sorensen at one time.


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 Post subject: Re: Dull maths
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2010, 12:58 
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blahblah wrote:
Hahneman 4.1PpG, from 8 CS
Given 3.7PpG from 11 CS


Two things: one, just because Hahneman had a huge PPG doesn't mean he got those points against the top sides - he will have still had a higher points total against the bad teams than good ones; and two, Given played in 35 games compared to Hahneman's 25. Hahneman actually kept clean sheets more often than Given when he played.


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 Post subject: Re: Dull maths
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2010, 13:05 
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Relegated_By_Xmas wrote:
blahblah wrote:
Hahneman 4.1PpG, from 8 CS
Given 3.7PpG from 11 CS


Two things: one, just because Hahneman had a huge PPG doesn't mean he got those points against the top sides - he will have still had a higher points total against the bad teams than good ones; and two, Given played in 35 games compared to Hahneman's 25. Hahneman actually kept clean sheets more often than Given when he played.



I didn't realise Hahneman was injured, I tried to stick with ones that played the most. Hennessy only got 2.8PpG for his 13 games.


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 Post subject: Re: Dull maths
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2010, 18:39 
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johnF wrote:
thebillfella wrote:
Why is there currently a trend on this forum to call a keeper a fister?!

If you google the word fister you generally find something other than goalkeepers!!! Some keepers have large hands and could do serious damage to someone elses anatomy!
What did you tell your Mrs when she discovered your internet history folder was full of links to 'fisting' websites?

'I was just trying to do some research on which goalkeeper to pick for my fantasy football team love, honest!' :D
Worse still, try explaining that the suspicious internet searches were just you researching Spurs' next CL qualifying game...


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 Post subject: Re: Dull maths
PostPosted: 07 Aug 2010, 14:40 
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Thanks Relegated_By_Xmas, I too had a sneaking suspicion that I should play a keeper away at Man Utd rather than following the same home advantage rule that I would apply to defenders (especially if it was a close call, like say Man Utd away vs Everton at home), however this gives me some more food for thought.

This season I think I'm going to go with a strong five in midfield, with 5/6 rotation players upfront and in defence, so your stats seem to backup my strategy.

That's just coincidence rather than a concious choice to apply these stats to my team selection, but at least I feel that I've put the rotators in the right place now and can just concentrate on picking the right names & pairs!

Nice bit of analysis from cincirollers too.


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 Post subject: Re: Dull maths
PostPosted: 07 Aug 2010, 14:41 
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DrBunker wrote:
Worse still, try explaining that the suspicious internet searches were just you researching Spurs' next CL qualifying game...


Or if you were an American trying to find out who their 'keeper is?


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 Post subject: Re: Dull maths
PostPosted: 12 Aug 2010, 14:39 
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Interesting stuff.

All the talk about goalkeepers being less effected by home/away may have an impact on mine - and others - team.

Hahnemann/Carson is a popular combo because their home/away fixtures pair so nicely, but with Carson my nailed on cheapo (Mignolot isn't for me) would - in light of this information - we be better served picking the best 4.5 keeper as supposed to Hahnemann?

Would Jusi Jaask or Paul Robinson not be better options?

The only other caveat is that my defense features Wolves and Blackburn already. Doubling up on lower teams seems risky business, the reason I had earlier shaded towards Jusi Jaask.


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