Breaking on Twitter now - Telegraph, Mail & maybe others running lead stories that at the Caddy Awards night in Shanghai, Williams said his gloating at the Bridgestone was because "My aim was to shove it right up that black bottom".

Couldn't have happened to a nicer chap.

Guys a prick

But there's no problem with saying that is there?

Well, bottom is the filtered version of arse_hole - but somehow I don't think that's what you are questioning.

Groomy, you made this comment a while back on this question:



In this case, we know who said it, and we know the context - asked about his obnoxious comments earlier in the season - and the intent.

So in this case, I say it is.

I just think we are confusing being abusive with being racist

You know what I think of England's Brave John Terry (TM)

But I honestly think he's not a racist and simply said something abusive - I think our reaction is disproportionate and I think this is not racist

We know Steve williams, like jt, is a total prick. But racist? Nah. Clearly not.

He and tiger were genuinely good friends, they fell out, Williams is an attention junkie.

Thats the story isn't it?

Can you make a racist comment without being a racist?

Who knows. Williams is the one who brought any element of race into it.

This post is very ironic considering you once tried to infer that a post I made was being racist about black people, which itself was ironic considering I am of black decent

Groomyd is completely correct in what he says, calling someone a 'black', 'French', 'gay', chap, doesn't make them racist/homophobic.

This very same point is being made by 'better' journalists, but their words are often drowned out by the headlines and people's personal views.

What Williams/Terry have said is again different to what Ron Atkinson said. There are levels of nastiness, though that still doesn't mean any of them wouldn't sit next to a black person on a bus because of his colour.

Getting away from the 'he who says a racist slur is a racist, end of' conclusion is hard. However, there's nothing wrong with condemning Williams and/or Terry/Suarez etc. for their words alone. Their behaviour is still abhorrent, people (especially those in the public eye) should learn to be decent human beings, however difficult it would seem.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/golf/15605113.stm

Williams appologises

I think the important bit he says is where he admitted it could be "construed as racist".

From his words, and terry's as mentioned - no one can say if someone they are a racist.

What is plainly stupid of Williams is to say these comments that would then be in the public domain and open to interpretation.

The post was not meant to be about the comment making Williams a racist. It was about the nature of the comment itself and its racist tones. And as I quoted from Groomy on another occasion, context, intent etc all matter. The audience weren't rolling around laughing, put it that way.

Expectation growing that Scott will fire Williams tomorrow when the tournament is over.

PS You should see some of the utter filth aimed at Collymore & Jason Roberts after the Terry/Ferdinand incident. Some of it was truly disgusting. The latent racism on display was appalling.

I think Tiger Woods is a pretty despicable human being - his contrite, rude answers when interviewed, his spitting, etc just can't stand the guy. I can't stand him and have little sympathy. After all, he's happy to make refrence to "spazz's", so a remark aimed agiants his skin colour will no doubt make little difference to one who is happy to mock people with Downs Syndrome.

However, Williams was wrong to bring his colour into question. He just could have said it was "nice to stick it up his arse" instead. Then that would have been that. Instead, he should be fired by Scott.



I think Terry is an utter embarrasment. He shouldn't play for England again. He shouldn't anyway because he is too slow. Again, like Woods, he's a nasty character. I really couldn't care about Collymore - pure soap - but Jason Roberts is a nice guy so sad to see abuse aimed at him on some of these notice boards, the racial language is so extreme

Why? You can make a racist comment as a black person (we're all of black decent by the way). it depends on what you said and the context.

As Spencer says it's really hard to have sensible debate without the media circus and Salem like hysteria.

In both Terry and Williams cases (and I strongly dislike both men) I think the Kunt bit of what Terry said and the bottom bit of what Williams said is where the abuse is. Is the black bit that important here?

Furthermore, and in my view importantly, These are two men having a go at one other person that they know over a specific incident. No one is saying blacks plural. Not an excuse but it means that we need to look at whether racism or just abuse to one person for specific reasons was intended.

Decidedly unproven?

The Golfer\Caddy relationship has to be one of the closest in sport, and it seems to be a bitter split...

What did Williams want to thrust up Woods ass?