The point being that if they subsequently come up with something that, on reflection, was better than what we have now (or our full involvement would led to such thing), we've effectively been shortchanged.

At the end of day I feel it wont matter, the euro is doomed & we're heading for a fairly world wide recession, possibly, in fact, more likely a depression? Apart from the latter been 'worse' than the former I'm not going to pretend I know intricate details of the difference though.

If we think 'things' are tough now? We aint seen nothing yet!

How cheery!

At least we can still laugh at the French protestations about potentially getting their credit rating reduced because of their Euro debt exposure etc.

Using google translate "No, that is not fair, pick on the British first, their economy is worse than ours and their cheese it does not smell".

But probably accurate.

As regards tclist reference to recession and depression, the former need not be a particularly big deal as it's now used to refer to two successive quarters with negative growth. If over two quarters GDP falls by 0.1% and 0.1% its likely to affect the bullshit spouted by the opposition more than anything else. "Recession! Recession! Osborne is a useless w*nker etc etc". However a depression is always a big deal which has widespread detrimental effects.

The huge national debts, current and projected deficits, Germany's total refusal to underpin the Euro, etc all lead to a situation about which one cannot be optimistic. Anyone who thinks that Camerons's refual to sign is more than a pinprick really hasn't grapsed the situation.

Its only being so cheerful that keeps me going Murf

I'll resist the temptation to comment on 'our' froggy friends though

Of all the rubbish spouted by gullible people, the idea that the EU is remotely fit to "audit" "oversee" or even "peek" at any country's accounts is the funniest. They have not had their own accounts signed off for 16 years!!!!

http://www.civitas.org.uk/wordpress/2010/11/10/eu-accounts-not-signed-off%E2%80%A6-for-the-16th-consecutive-year/

They've demonstrated how bad they are at such things by allowing Greece etc in, putting political expediency above any thought for long term credibility.

Tclist, Striker - nail on the head.

So many people have so little idea of exactly how far up the creek the entire global financial system is. Someone like Ed Balls professes to be quite smart but he's just another politician wanting the kudos of a top job. The reality is so far removed from some of the rubbish that we hear it's depressing.

The key issue is deflating the outsized banking/financial sector while insulating the public as best as possible. Unfortunately, pain, of the severe variety, is unavoidable.

And, as usual in recent times, the loser left alone on the dancefloor at the end of the night is Europe, stuffed full of all the problems that the rest of the world have exited when they realise the game is up. Except this time the "game" is one of biblical plague proportions.

Tacalabala - if you honestly think that a disparate bunch of countries, the majority of whom have failed on one or both of the targeted measures for most of the last decade, are suddenly going to adhere to the same rules because of the threat of the European Court of Justice putting them on the naughty step, you're off your head. (It's not even because it is unlikely to be the right solution that they won't adhere to the rules, just that it's a false threat).

Either legislation will redistribute the wealth or revolution will distribute the poverty.

Yeah, I heard that rumour, I wonder who started it, Yvette Cooper probably?

Personally I see no reason to stay in the EU, why cling onto a sinking ship & keep throwing money at a doomed 'project'?

'We' are going to need every penny for a very rough ride.

It sounds like we're very close to another banking crisis & the bond markets will be getting more reluctant by the day to lend money to debt ridden country's, including us?

And Miliband is as bad.

The thing is this: David Saxe Coburg and Gotha revelled in the glory of telling Europe to eff off, but did so in defence of the Bankers who caused the debacle in the first place and was cheered on by Bam Bam Boris. Now Saxe Coburg and Gotha appears to be getting back into bed with Europe.......... The bloke is clueless, and it is no surprise that the Tories are trying to get rid of him, but his "establishment" Allies are fighting back by attacking Fox, May and Georgie "the even more Clueless".

You appear to have missed the point about the EU over seeing OUR fiscal policy etc?

+

Wouldn't the proposed transaction tax be aimed at the Stock exchange & that's who DC was protecting?