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 Post subject: berlin or vienna
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2011, 21:40 
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Dumbledore
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her indoors wants a weekend way somewhere diff from the usual spain-greece-etc so im thinking one of these euro city breaks

i quite like the look of berlin and vienna

so has anyone got the lowdown on these 2 places please ?

did quite fancy venice but the prices were horrendous i found :|


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 Post subject: Re: berlin or vienna
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2011, 21:42 
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Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.
Bruges is meant to be good for a Weekend, as it is small enough to "do" in a weekend...........


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 Post subject: Re: berlin or vienna
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2011, 21:53 
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FISO Baron
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Brutes is great and a nice size. Watch 'In Bruges' first. Cracking film but not necessarily Tourist Board approved!

Vienna is good too and the main sights are conveniently close together.

When I was in Berlin the wall was only just down and it was still officially East and West Germany so my knowledge is ancient. Having said that I haven't been to any of these since 1990! I'd return to Bruges first.


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 Post subject: Re: berlin or vienna
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2011, 21:59 
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Went to Berlin recently, drinking mainly. It's a modern city, younger at heart than Vienna, and probably cheaper, though I've not been to Austria for ages.

All depends what you want from a holiday, I love Germany, it's so under-rated, but for a few days away I think Amsterdam is the best place out there.


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 Post subject: Re: berlin or vienna
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2011, 22:07 
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Dumbledore
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Amsterdam.


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 Post subject: Re: berlin or vienna
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2011, 22:09 
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Bruges is good for a weekend as is Amsterdam
Prague is also great for a short break


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 Post subject: Re: berlin or vienna
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2011, 22:38 
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Amsterdam as mentioned but I also love Maastricht in the Netherlands. Also in the Netherlands: Middleburg / Vlissengen in the South you can visit and not be overrun with Brits - they are both lovely, cheap (er) and by the sea too which adds a dimension.

I prefer Ghent to Brugge - it's cheaper too, but to be honest if you are there for a few days then you are only 30 mins from the other so you can day trip it. Antwerp is also close by and worth a visit. None is more than an hour or so from Brussels too. Brugge literally gets over-run by tourists in the Summer.

I really liked Vienna - been there a few times but I also know more people who did not like it. I would also say its at its best in the Winter. It also depends on what you want to do - for museums and things its hard to beat. Quite touristy especially the old Mozarty things. Don't expect the Danube winding through town its miles away. It also has a rather unlovely circular road around the middle.

Totally agree with SP4 re Germany as an underplayed destination but i do not know Berlin at all.

Venice is expensive but you could stay somewhere like Verona and do day trips there - its a nice enough destination by itself and in that part of Italy you are not far from Bologna, Milan, Florence, Pisa all of which are accessible easily by train.

I know you do not want Spain but I love Madrid and you can use it as a base to do Toledo to the South and Segovia in the North (both v close).

One of my most memorable city breaks was to Istanbul - I would go there again at the drop of the hat - wonderful

Mostly I suppose it depends on whether you want to see any big ticket sights / drink or party / relax


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 Post subject: Re: berlin or vienna
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2011, 23:11 
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Amsterdam.


Not Milan then? :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: berlin or vienna
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2011, 23:13 
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Of the two you mentioned in your opening post, I have only been to one of them (Vienna). I would really recommend it especially if you are going with a female. Very romantic and cultural.

(I cannae compare with Berlin as I haven't been).


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 Post subject: Re: berlin or vienna
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2011, 23:20 
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Richt wrote:
The Real Slim Shady wrote:
Amsterdam.


Not Milan then? :lol:

:lol:

Dusseldorf surprised me when we went for a cheapie weekend. Catch it on the right weekend and its very lively. Shops, bars, restaurants, live music all clustered in the centre - tip stay out of the city centre though as you'll never get any sleep.
http://www.duesseldorf-tourismus.de/en/ ... ghts-2011/


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 Post subject: Re: berlin or vienna
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2011, 23:25 
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Dumbledore
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Richt wrote:
The Real Slim Shady wrote:
Amsterdam.


Not Milan then? :lol:

Not for a day.


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 Post subject: Re: berlin or vienna
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2011, 23:39 
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I lived and worked in Germany for 20 years and during that time I spent 3 years in Berlin. I also know Vienna pretty well and there is much of a likeness about both places. I could also speak in German in each of the Cities which made it easier for me when visiting Vienna (or Wien as it is called there). Berlin is possibly a bit more vibrant depending on what you are looking for, but in my opinion it has gone downhill a bit since the wall came down. If I was pressed I would say Vienna.


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 Post subject: Re: berlin or vienna
PostPosted: 09 Jun 2011, 13:34 
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Bruges is quality and quite close to the mainland 8-)

If you go to Germany I suggest Dusseldorf. Cracking old town. Salzburg is nice too in neighbouring Austria.

I know Vienna is pricey and I haven't heard too many positive things said about Berlin, apart from some historical buildings.

PS If you go to Germany lay off the salad :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: berlin or vienna
PostPosted: 09 Jun 2011, 14:21 
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Grumpy Old Man
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If you fancy Italy but not Venice, then there's always Florence or Siena.

Also how about Tallinn? Gets a bit of a bad rap because of stag trips, but (although I've not been) it's supposed to be a lovely place.

Isn't Vienna full of Bears??


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 Post subject: Re: berlin or vienna
PostPosted: 10 Jun 2011, 23:15 
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I used to live in Prague and a few of us travelled by road for a weekend in Vienna. It's not the most interesting or vibrant city but probably enough to keep you occupied for a (very) short trip.

Would definitely suggest Prague though, beautiful city but perhaps worth more than just a weekend.


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 Post subject: Re: berlin or vienna
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2011, 15:03 
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thanks for the feedback chaps

someone told me that bavaria is very beautiful also in the summer over in germany..

they actually told me to watch the great escape again as much of the filming was done in that region..mcqueen on the bike and james garner flying over the old castles and stuff in the stolen plane

does all look very pretty if thats right but could it be done over a weekend i guess ?


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 Post subject: Re: berlin or vienna
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2011, 15:36 
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Depends where you want to go and for what.

Breweries and baroque architecture, Bamberg - Coburg - Wurzburg

Beer halls and medieval architecture, Munich and Regensburg

Timber framed houses - Wurzburg to Fussen on the Romantic Road Bus(book the bus well ahead) or just get a one day Bavarian Lander ticket. Unlimited travel in Bavaria for 2-5 people, 29 euros.

http://www.bahn.com/i/view/GBR/en/price ... cket.shtml

Or a schones wochende ticket for 39 euros

A weekend is ok for Munich, the others would be rushing about to much.


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 Post subject: Re: berlin or vienna
PostPosted: 01 Jul 2011, 18:44 
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Berlin wins hands down I lived there for 8 years in total in the 80's fantastic place and would live there in a flash.....but
can't unfortunately. Has everything the City life, Forests, Beaches, River. Good sports facilities and great Ice Hockey team. The Olympic Stadium with football and athletics. Concerts are brilliant and they have fantastic venues. Restaurants anything and everything all price ranges. Weather in Summer Hot, Weather in Winter Cold but you know what you are going to get. If you are a bit of nudist :shock: Then they strip off anywhere and everywhere :shock: Saunas in the winter superb, very lush and not expensive. Cheap rental, one of the cheapest cities in Europe to rent long term....and buy come to that. Brilliant food and drink festivals Greenweek. Cinema festival once a year. Of course the Octoberfest....not as big as Munich of course, but they still have one. Good Transport system the U bahn clean as a whistle. The roads are very easy to drive on...not like London or Paris. Best time of my life there....miss it so much.


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 Post subject: Re: berlin or vienna
PostPosted: 02 Jul 2011, 11:27 
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I was editor of our Staff Newsletter around last August and I decided to write a piece on my mini European tour. You may be able to take some ideas from this or it will bore you to pieces :D . Either way, we're having a new system at work so it was about to be wiped (at least that's what IT said :wink: )

"For the first time since 2006, I had decided to take a two week holiday. With two friends and armed with a map, a rather sketchy itinerary and a Sat Nav, we decided to head off into Europe. The plan was to cover 5 countries in 16 days, taking in as many sights as possible. It would also coincide with the World Cup and England would no doubt cruise through their easy group. Here’s how it went :-

Day 1 – Friday 11 June - Birmingham to Paris
My one friend is a keen car buff and decided to take his Toyota MR2. Neither me nor my other friend were that keen on taking our own cars so we had pre booked a nice sporty Volvo C30. At least that’s what we thought but on arrival at the car hire place we were offered one of two……people carriers. A rather heated discussion followed and in the end, we managed to get an Audi A4 for half the price. No problem driving down to Dover and we got the Ferry, which had been pre booked, for 2pm. Toll road all the way into Paris and got to the Hotel for approximately 6pm.

Alas, it turned out the pre booked hotel (a Formula 1) was not quite as near to the centre of Paris as their website had made out. In fact, it was a 60 Euro taxi fare away ! The beer was 6 Euros a pint (about a fiver) and at this early stage it became very evident that this holiday wasn’t going to be cheap.

Day 2 – Saturday 12 June – Paris
An early start and in view of the steep taxi fare, we took the shuttle bus to the nearest station and then the train to Paris. In quick succession, the various sights of Notre Dame Cathedral, The Louvre, The Champs Elysses, the Arc De Triumph and the Eiffel Tower were all taken in. The centre of Paris was mind blowing and the Louvre was particulary impressive even though I am not a big fan of art. I have pictures of the Venus De Milo from every conceivable angle and I managed to wrestle my way to the front of the scrum of Japanese tourists surrounding the Mona Lisa, getting as close as possible to Da Vinci’s masterpiece.

We only just found a bar in time for the England USA game on the night. The first ten minutes of the World Cup would turn out to be the most enjoyable from an England fan’s perspective, little did we know what was to follow. Robert Green’s howler was greeted with much amusement by the locals and also the American barmaid but this would just be a blip, wouldn’t it? We sank several drinks, put on a brave face and made the most of the Parisian cafes and bars.

Day 3 - Sunday 13 June – Paris to Lyon
Lyon was thrown in just to split the journey from Paris to the South. Yet again, another toll road came in handy as the roundabouts – and giving way from the right – played havoc with your senses. The sun actually appeared for the first time as Paris had been overcast, although the good weather wasn’t to last for long. The old town in Lyon was very picturesque and as we were in France, we found an English Pub, had a game of darts and went for a curry.

Day 4 - Monday 14 June – Lyon to Cannes
The driving really got interesting today. Cannes proved a nightmare to negotiate. Narrow roads flanked by small concrete bollards. I went the wrong way down a one way street, much to the annoyance of the locals. Still, accommodation was found with relative ease after parking the cars in a multi storey. The sun was out in full force by the time we booked into the hotel. After unpacking, I covered myself in factor 30, emerged from the hotel, only for the weather to cloud over. Typical. It was the last we would see of the sun until Italy.

Cannes was disappointing. One small area of private beach and the beer, was very, very expensive. In fact, one pint cost me 9 Euros (!) I savoured every drop. There was one decent Irish Bar and it was here that we decided to give Nice a miss and use the spare day to visit The Italian Lakes, after a discussion with fellow Brits. That night the South of France witnessed it’s worst weather for about 200 years. Several people were killed in floods affecting Lyon and it poured down all night. It felt like a home from home.

Day 5 - Tuesday 15 June - Cannes (Monte Carlo)
Cannes was still very wet from the night before and it wasn’t exactly warm for the time of year. We got the train from Cannes to Monte Carlo, the capital of the Principality of Monaco. As an avid Formula 1 follower, I bored my mates to death by insisting that we walked round the circuit. It was that windy that the moored Yachts of the rich and famous were bobbing up and down in the harbour. We did the touristy thing and visited the Royal Palace and the casino before heading back to Cannes for more overpriced beer.

It was around this time that I made a quick call home. Whilst Cannes was 16 degrees, wet and windy, I discovered that Birmingham was in the midst of a mini heat wave. Life sucks sometimes !

Day 6 – Wednesday 16 June – Cannes to Verona
Au Revoir to Francais and Ciao Italia. The toll booth covering the border was extremely confusing and we were not given a ticket in the ensuing chaos. This caused further confusion when we finally left the toll road. The Italian toll booth attendant, who didn’t speak English, would not let us through without a ticket. I said “Milano” in the end, knowing full well it was only “down the road” and promptly got charged the cheapest toll ever for the distance travelled.

It was much more difficult to get accommodation in Verona and the local Tourist Information Office came in very handy. Verona was great. Lots of cobbled little side roads, teenagers whizzing about on mopeds, people drinking and eating in cafes which spilled out onto the pavements. All the locals looking very chic. An amphitheatre overlooks the city, like a mini Colosseum and of a night the various monuments were lit up spectacularly

Day 7 - Thursday 17 June – Verona
This was supposed to be a relaxing “chill” day but the curse of the weather struck again. A violent thunderstorm hit and such was the deluge that various lorries had to be employed to pump dry some of the streets, which had been flooded. I did manage to walk round the amphitheatre pre storm and view the balcony of Juliet’s house, as immortalised in Shakespears’s Romeo and Juliet. Unfortunately, the balcony was only built relatively recently to satisfy the droves of tourists so, all in all, a bit of a con really.

Day 8 – Friday 18 June Verona - Lake Garda
It was only a sort drive to Lake Garda and accommodation was easily found at the Southern shore. The weather was hot and sunny and the lake looked stunning in the sun. In an eager attempt to catch up on my tan I forgot to apply lotion to the area just below my eyes. By early evening, I looked a bit like a drug addict. Unfortunately my eyes did not close completely and I witnessed every painful minute of England’s draw against Algeria, along with an unhappy gathering of English tourists and Ex-Pats.

Day 9 – Saturday 19 June – Verona to Innsbruck
I was back in the driving seat and a mammoth drive lay ahead. We had to cross the Alps and then the negotiate the famous Stelvio Pass, 48 hairpins and all, as shown on quite a famous episode of Top Gear.

Following about an hour of driving, we rapidly started to gain altitude and the dual carriageway had eventually morphed into a tricky winding road. Patches of snow appeared and it was somewhat unnerving to see that the safety barriers had been replaced by a series of well placed rocks ! This first became evident after emerging from a tunnel and after a minor attack of vertigo, I tip toed the car up the small winding road to the summit, where fortunately there was a café with much needed toilet facilities. It turned out we had reached the highest point of the “Passo Gavia”, 2,652 metres above sea level. The air was clean and the views were breathtaking.

The decline was just as tricky and we eventually reached the ski resort of Bolmio. From here it was just a short drive to Stelvio and we reached the pass, parking the car at the foot of the pass to watch an assortment of sports cars and bikers taking their vehicles through their paces. There was quite a lot of orange netting covering gaps in the safety barriers where people had presumably crashed and in view of this, I adopted a James May Captain Slow style of driving (I was also wary of the hefty excess on the hire car)

Once the pass had been cleared, we passed through Austria, Italy, Switzerland and finally Austria again. The Sat Nav was a godsend. Finally, after driving for about 8 hours, we reached the Austrian town of Innsbruck, famous for hosting the Winter Olympics. The night out proved eventful. Firstly, the smoking ban hasn’t reached Austria. Secondly, we decided to hit a club, which had just enough thirty somethings so as not to make us feel out of place. Secondly, the Austrians sure can’t half binge drink. It seemed standard practice to come back from the bar with a wooden rack containing 10 shots. We got talking – as you do – and I have a somewhat hazy memory of drinking neat vodka out of a bottle. I’ll never know to this day if the DJ played my “Rock Me Amadeus” request.

Day 10 – Sunday 20th June – Innsbruck to Salzburg
Nursing heavy hangovers we made our way to Salzburg, home to Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart and The Sound of Music. It was late June and the weather was only nine degrees ! After booking accommodation, we ticked off the various pubs Salzburg had to offer.

Day 11 – Monday 21st June – Salzburg
The city of Salzburg is overlooked by The Hohensalzburg, a fortress which is the largest of its type in Europe. It was interesting to tour the fortress and climb the turrets to get a stunning bird’s eye view of the city. We checked out the square and some of the museums. The only thing that let Salzburg down was the weather. It’s probably great in the sun. The Austrians seemed just like Germans and there are Red Bull signs everywhere. Even the football team is known as Red Bull Salzburg.

Day 12 – Tuesday 22nd June - Salzburg to Frankfurt
About half an hours driver from Salzburg is the “Kehlsteinhaus”. This was Adolf Hitler’s summer retreat, better known as “The Eagles Nest”. It’s about 2,000 metres above sea level and we had to get a coach to the top. When we finally got to the summit, it was quite unnerving to enter the building through a large tunnel. I imagined what life would have been like 70 years before with Hitler entertaining various SS generals and discussing battle plans. The lounge of The Kehlsteinhaus is now a restaurant and I ordered something which was really nice (no idea what !), apart from the Sauerkraut, which is just like sickly sweet cabbage and pretty disgusting.

From there it was a straight drive down the Autobahns (German Motorways) to Frankfurt. The Autobahns are famous for having no speed limit. I therefore cranked up the Audi to a whopping 135mph but it is quite unnerving to be tailgated at this speed by a Porsche or BMW, so I soon eased off to a more manageable 90mph.

Frankfurt is a typically clean and smart German city. It was only chosen because it was mid way between Salzburg and Bruges. At least the weather picked up again and it also had a fan park to cater for Football fans, which was nice.

Day 13 – Wednesday 23 June - Frankfurt
The big day had arrived and it was make or break for England. The three of us donned our England tops (although mine must have been the wrong size because it was a bit too tight) and made our way through the German hordes. There was about 100 English or so rattling around in the fan park and we had plenty to cheer as we annihilated the mighty Slovenians 1-0. We stayed to see Germany beat Ghana and that meant they would play us in the next round. 4-2, Nobby Stiles and all that. No problemo. We found one of the ever present Irish Pubs to enjoy the banter with the Germans. Don’t worry, I said, Rooney’s bound to score soon……

Day 14 – Thursday 24 June - Frankfurt to Bruges
Bruges was added because I had seen the film “In Bruges”. Simples. That was the extent of my research. It looked pretty and I wasn’t disappointed. Accommodation was nigh on impossible to find because of a conference but we managed to squeeze in somewhere. The town is practically no go to traffic and bike or on foot are the best forms of making your way around. The sun was out in full force and it seemed half the population of Holland was in town, which made for a great atmosphere. Horses and carts escorted tourists around the town and the Clock Tower looked great when lit up. What’s more, the beer was twice the strength, so a half was sufficient to have the desired effect. Actually it was more than sufficient.

Day 15 – Friday 25 June - Bruges
More history today. We took the car and travelled to Passchendale. This was the scene of one of most horrific battles of World War One. There is a war museum there and it was extremely moving to read the letters that various governments had sent to Mothers/Fathers of the fallen. One of my Great Grandads, Sergeant Harry Frost, had perished on 18 December 1914. He was 37. It was my age at the time. We eventually found the memorial which listed his name. Thank you.

Last night of the holiday ! Every conceivable beer was drank – although this wasn’t that many. Two weeks had flown by.

Day 16 – Saturday 26 June – Bruges to Birmingham
We arrived back safe and sound. It had been eventful and we had ticked off five countries, several cities and covered about 1,800 miles. I put my wallet in ice to recover and unpacked my extensive collection of quality fridge magnets. Well, someone has too."


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