I take it from those comments you don't agree.

I guess not too surprising seeing the amount on money you have made from the mini leagues since it changed.

In the old system anyone could enter any amount of teams into the Fiso mini league, If Fiso won the league then anyone could get into the top 10 and win some money if their teams were good enough. At the end of the season there was a good mix of people who did win including some who only entered a handful of teams.

Under the new system most Fiso members have no chance of winning anything because you have to enter many many teams now to have any chance of winning, and the majority just don't want to do that.

It has gone from a situation where if a Fiso member who only like to enter a few teams had a great season out of the blue and finished in the top 100 in the old system he would almost certainly have won himself a few grand out of the Fiso mini league (he would get nothing in the overall). Now he would just win nothing, unless he had also done a another 7 or eight similar teams and then got a mate to also make one or two similar teams and then stick them in a league.

Under the old system the mini league money was shared between about 70 odd people. Under this one It has been shared by about 10 - 15 at most.

What was it about the old system you didn't like Edmondson ?

I agree there is loads of contradictory stuff on there. It needs clarifying before I enter any teams. It's all about the mini leagues for me the Sun, The Overall is just too much a long shot to be taken seriously even if I have had 5 top 100 finishes in the last 3 years, still light years away to be taken seriously.

Don't think it's a bad as you're thinking, else they wouldn't have bothered with the 30 players at all times for clear permutations rule. The only thought I have regarding being "submitted by one entrant" would be say you entered a batch of teams using your credit card and then Ashley entered his also using a credit card in your name rather than his own. I know that a few of the BBM have entered on the behalf of others for various reasons (no idea without checking if teams ended up in the same ML or not), how Derek Tam went about things with his various "partners" or how Bloggie and sis (as the other big ML winners of last season) managed payment for their entries. Perhaps Bloggie can confirm whether all payments came from cards with his name on them?

That ruling (if it how I read) does have the potential to harm work/ friends/ family MLs where cash is paid by the rest for one person to make the online entries.

They were quite clear about using credit cards last year also which computer the teams had been entered on so why not just repeat that if that is the case.

They were? Missed that totally!

how does he decide on expelling teams from 1st place...oh i know them, there from fiso--sorry out you go

all teams have to be in the name of the player..no borrowing family members or whoever

perhaps the sun want to have a season of the man in the street winning all there prizes

'Where a Mini League entry has been identified by the Promoter as including any identical teams' So does that mean all teams need to be distinct as it sounds like it or any leeway allowed in transfer alignment?Whereas in the world cup it was only 5 distinct but you'd think there'd put that next to the 30 player rule if it was meant that way so we didn't have to keep on asking them questions.

I think they like having someone to talk to

Dot?

Surely they know his number by now and the short straw has to answer?

Basically, after what i can grasp from the ts and cs, it is possible that the top 5 (end of season) mini leagues could all be disqualified upon checking if there was NOT at all times 30 different players in any of them.

Obviously the sun doesnt have something in place that warns your mini league if it aint got 30 different players

On this evidence you might think you finished 6th only then to find out you actually won!

Conversely, you might think youve won, only for the sun to tell you that youre DQ'd because you only had 28 or 29 players at one point

Guys - I heard from David Watkins that they want to promote mates / groups or whoever working together to enter mini leagues. Therefore the BBM type syndicate, or indeed the one I was involved in for the world cup, where there was 4 of us...that is absolutely fine.

I'd also say the league I entered with Zimmerman last season, 3 of mine, 2 of his (or was it the other way around?) would still be fine.

I think they have just put that line in to scare away the solo operator, who would find it easier to do mass entries operating alone if it was just his and a relative's account. Those sort of entries would be the ones in danger I'd say. I'm not 100% on this, but I wouldn't be scared off by a genuine small group working together - this will be fine.

Rick - I entered the fiso league and Onion bag league I think a couple of years ago, and managed 1 top 10 monthly finish quite early in the season, so had 10% of a decent amount, but then due to fiso winning every month, this dwindled to £100. I wouldn't necessarily use that as a reason why I didn't like those arrangements, I just think they were a bit dull. The fiso league might have 5 entries from me, then several hundred from someone else, so it's still the same scenario of big v little, just big v little playing for smaller amounts.

I had 40 teams last season, and set up about 5 mini leagues from the start, so about 15 of my teams organised with others. The other 25 I found some homes for via fiso on deadline day, which was quite entertaining if a little erratic. Our league finished top from a small entry, Miles finished 5th from a similar size entry. There were all sorts of other fiso leagues dotted around the top 20, of which i was involved in a few. Where is the problem with that? Just because Tam and O'Grady, maybe Hassibis (?) had a good amount up there, doesn't mean they'll clean up. It sounds to me like too many on these boards roll out the 'big multi' as an excuse because they didn't win.

The competitiveness in the mini leagues was well received by The Sun last season, and they've rewarded that by sticking up a massive first prize with some big rule changes that blow the whole thing wide open. I find that quite exciting, as do others who were hoping for the 30 players rule to be all season, so the sweeping statement that "the rules were fine as they were 2 years ago" doesn't stack, you just preferred it how it was back then, which is fine.

We will get clarity on the visit on the 28th which is well before the season starts
no Panic Mr Mannering.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... sh-in.html

Link to where the sun are trying to promote teaming up in mini leagues to the masses.

Good Luck

Make sure you sort it Dot then none of will have to have petty arguments throughout the season as we'll all know where we stand.

PS can you get it in writing.

Reading the account of the Fiso 'Jolly boys outing' to Wapping I was surprised when I read this:






I thought the idea of the 30 player rule was to give ordinary leagues a chance of the weekly prizes. If that is the case then they will all only be won by specialist leagues put in for that particular week. Ordinary works leagues won't stand a chance in the overall mini leagues no matter how much they change the rules.

Ordinary leagues will never have a chance of any mini league prize under any rules. To be fair they are just set up to manage pub and office leagues, so not like they are expecting or targeting it.

Dreamteam are trying to promote the ordinary punter to have a go with some mates at a 'structured' league. They got rid of monthlies as saw these being mopped up by the 'pro's' as they call them, but thought weeklies gives everyone a chance.

I think weeklies are obviously more of a lottery, but I just don't see Gaz and Baz from down the pub, sticking 10 teams in together for a weekly prize.

I think the ml weeklies are very unlike the 'once was' monthlies in that the result can be a lot more random so not necessarily won by a targeted league even if it doesn't need 30 players. It increases your odds no doubt but the odds are not going to be that much in your favour except in one or two weeks when the fixtures favour that.Aiming just one league at it is 2k divided by 25 so an 80-1 shot where I think some weeks you could reduce those odds to 50-1 with that one minileague whereas others your odds could be 200-1 even with a good eye at picking the best players. No doubt the BBM can win a few so good luck to them but I'm sure they know targeted minileagues are not going to win week in week out as the bulk of season efforts are going to be lurking and they are looking to just win a few which is good enough as it gives a profit with the season interest added to that.

An early return and I think there'll be some fun to be had for the rest of the season

Since when has the sun done early returns vid?

I obviously don't mean getting the money but if one of the "competing groups" hit one or more of the early weeklies, 2-6k "in the bank" gives a great deal of freedom to continue reinvesting (smaller groups might be borrowing more and more distant relatives credit cards as the weeks progress )

As there is a lot of Tam-baiting and troll-worthy posts floating about the Mini-Leagues forum, I thought I'd give my take on the rules and why multiple accounts (or 'surrogates' as I like to call them) can only be deemed invalid if The Sun wants to be extremely officious and heavy-handed.

"Mini League Prizes

There will be £168,000 worth of Mini League prizes over the duration of the Game. A Mini League can consist of an unlimited number of teams but in order to qualify for any Mini League prize a Mini League must comprise of a minimum of ten teams with a minimum of two independently entered entrants (defined as two distinct accounts set up by two distinct registered users as determined solely by the Promoter). In order to be eligible for any end of season Mini League prize there must be at least thirty (30) different Eligible Players in the constituent Mini League teams over the course of the season including any transferred in players. It is the responsibility of each Mini League chairman to ensure this rule is met.

Where a Mini League entry has been identified by the Promoter as including any identical teams or all teams appear to have been submitted by the same entrant, the Mini League may be invalidated for any prize. An assessment will be made by the Promoter and all factors taken into consideration."

So it says "two distinct accounts set up by two distinct registered users" and then says "all teams appear to have been submitted by the same entrant". You can easily use your wife's name, email address and credit card details to satisfy the two distinct accounts criteria, but the "all teams appear to have been submitted by the same entrant" part is simply too vague and is pretty much impossible to prove. However, it does use the word "submitted", which I believe is what some people are getting angry about.

If 10 users had entered teams into a mini-league, with one person dictating what each of the teams should be, is that allowed? Yes.

Is that any different to if 2 users had entered teams into a mini-league with one person dictating what each of the teams should be? No, it isn't, but it would be impossible to prove that either of those is the case. However, you could prove that the teams have been submitted by the same person if you log the IP Address used for each team entry.

And that's the point. We all know that the Tam/Wraight syndicate is not 14 genuine DT players (Noah's Ark as Dot likes to call it) and we all know that Zimm, Zarch and Edmo's crew use other names to make up the numbers for mini league chairmen. Liam Mannion uses Martin to make up the numbers in his leagues. So what? It's not too different to how Dot and his 4 man crew operate, as although their leagues include each of the 4 members, they are clearly a 'structured permutation' (or whatever The Sun call it) and as such are clearly organised by them as a group, as a single entity. It could be one member of that group organising each league, or it could be a group effort with input from all of them. The difference is, Dot and his crew are not having one person submitting all of their teams, whereas other syndicates possibly are.

The point I am trying to make is that a syndicate of 1 man with 'surrogate' accounts or a syndicate of 10 genuine DT players is not really any different. They are both single entities. The only thing that makes them different, and that makes me think The Sun could throw a spanner in their works, is where it says "all teams appear to have been submitted by the same entrant". We can't prove anything like that, not even JPK with his technical wizardry, so there is absolutely no point in continually baiting Tam or any of the other big multi-entrants about it. To prove all teams were 'submitted' by the same entrant would require The Sun to be ultra efficient and analytical of their database or their server logs, and we all know that is not going to happen.

12,500 tams and you enter 117 into the ist week of the WDT

You couldn't make it up could ya Jules.


888 tams and you dont bother with the WDT game it gets even more laughable

.


To confidant to snaring a big prize and getting a 1/14th share.

I think he/they are taking a breather before hitting it hard. This weekend will be interesting as they will have had plenty of time to prepare their entry method. Try not to bait too much, as I'd rather not have 12,500 of Tam's WDT entries to compete against!

Position Mini League Manager Points
1 GHUJU LIAM MANNION 211.20
2 Ghuddu LIAM MANNION 198.10
3 Flat Bees Jeffrey Tam 198.00
4 Mannanah LIAM MANNION 197.00
5 Gawana LIAM MANNION 195.10


Only a couple more days to go and that top 5 still has a familiar look. Anyone expecting a 220+ to come and slot in on top?

There's obviously still quite a few people holding back until Fri/Sat for whatever reason. But even if there is a shake up in the top 5, 10, 20, whatever, it's all likely to change next week anyway, especially with teams playing in Europe.

I don't think the ML table will start to settle just yet, far from it.

Have you boys entered all your leagues yet Dave?

Graham - A few leagues still with a couple of teams missing, awaiting validation once the 10 are in, but almost there. Has been a long process!

Ronny -

This little period before TW1 could be quite important. There are so many players that have yet to hit double figures, who could easily swing things dramatically in 3 or 4 games. Also a few injuries creeping in. If you're within 40 or 50 at TW1 that is still not too bad I reckon. It's a long old stretch from there, so I reckon won't be until towards end of November that the table will really take shape.

Not yet.

just waiting for me i think!